I think they did survive because the story keeps on going, they say that as they are sliding down the hill they can hear music. It nevers says that they fell off the sled or something happened. "Behind him,across vast distances of space and time from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." So he is still alive he just hears music. So when he is going down the hill hears that music and he is still alive.
I get what you are saying but in the book it never clearly says or gives any clear info that he died. It says that he went down the hill and when he got to the bottom he heard singing like a sound of success that he has made it through. It is possible that there was not really singing but I don't think he died.
The human brain still has a few minutes, if not moments of consciousness before it dies. "Vast distances of space and time" isn't something people use to describe hearing music. When you listen to music, do you say "I hear something over vast distances of space and time"? Absolutely not.Also, the entire point of this assignment is concluding whether or not Jonas survived because the author left it open ended. Of course the author didn't say something bad happened.
I disagree because when he was hearing music he was hallucinating because he was tired starving cold and thirsty so his body could not take it anymore.
Jonas and Gabriel survived because when they were going down the sled it had to many details to be a hallucination or an after death experience. On page 178 it states "He forced his eyes open as they went downwards, downward, sliding, and at once he could see lights and he recognized them now. He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were the red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees.
Your paragraph is very confusing because you say that they survive, but you also say that the sled and the lights were an 'after death experience'. You are essentially saying that they both survived and died, so I am kind of lost on what you are trying to say with this.
Your details and reasoning are very mixed up with your answer. That is certainly an after-death experience, so it has nothing to do with Jonas and Gabriel being alive. In addition, hallucinations can be very vivid and real. That's the whole point of them being hallucinations. It was extremely cold outside when they were riding down the sled, so it is very believable that they died.
I get your point but hallucinations are often very vivid. And considering Jonas had the memory of the sled that was a part of someones actual experience. At the end of the day it does not make much sense that the specific sled and area are there. It seems to good to be true and most of the evidence points to Jonas and Gabe dying.
Cal, How would Jona know what the outside of the houses looked like to such detail when In the sledding memory There was no mention of any houses. The book never mentions what the houses look like so then even if he had very vivid hallucinations he would not even know about the correct lighting color, and other details and the chances of his hallucinations matching that perfectly would be very small.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel survived. I think Jonas and Gabriel survived because at the end of the book the heard singing and saw lights hanging from trees. It was christmas in another comunity.
I disagree. For one, at the end of the book, it says "Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." Which might mean that they were about to die and fall asleep forever.
He could have easily been hallucinating because it seems very unrealistic that he would relive his first memory with the sled, all over again. He also said he was losing consciousness, and possibly he died.
The music and the lights could be the memory of christmas, Jonas really liked that memory so he could of hallucinated it before he died. In the book it also says that it could have been an echo which might mean that it didn't really happen.
The music and lights was from the memory he experienced before the incident. What he was experiencing was possibly real, but you fail to acknowledge previous evidence. I have changed my mind as to whether or not Jonas and Gabriel survived, but you can't neglect evidence.
i disagree because when they were going up the mountain it said that its started to get foggy and i was so cold and hungry. so i think that they died and that the rest of the book was a dream and when he said that he heard music and saw lights that was all just a hillosinashion. and when he says he can hear that was also a hillosinashion just because it seams that it couldn't be a hilloinashion dose'nt mean that its not.
I believe that Jonas and Gabriel did survive. On page 179 it says "he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo". So I think that they finally made it to their destination and heard music to prove that they were gone from the community.
I think that the music was more of a distant memory or his mind wanting to hear music. It also could be some sort of "choir of angels ascension" or something as he dies
In Jonas's condition he could have gotten hypothermia, the hypothermia would have cause hallucinations. This would explain why he was able to hear the music, the book said behind him, across vast distances of space and time, he thought he heard music. No one can hear that far away so it can easily he a hallucination.
In the quote that you have stated said that Jonas and Gabriel had heard music and that it was an echo, but an echo could have made him hear hallucinations before seasoning away into death.
You have a good point but the music does not mean he survived. It could be and indicator, but it could also be a metaphor for angels singing or something like that, He could be hallucinating, could be him just thinking about a memory.
I think you make a great point Danielle. I just dont believe that louis lowry would have make that last sentence "but perhaps it was only just an echo" if Jonas did see something siding down the hill in the sled with Gabreil dont you think he would have heard more than just "an echo"
Jonas and Gabriel survived because right at the end jonas heard music On page 179 it says "For the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing." He also saw lights that he perceived were for christmas. On page 178 it says "He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees in places where families created and kept memories, where they celebrated love." That's really specific
He could have been hallucinating because their was a sled that was just their they never said anything about the sled or how it got their. and i think that when they went on the sled that was when they died.
I disagree because he could have been hallucinating thinking that he was in the community, but he probably would have starve or froze to death trying to come to the community losing his memory from it.
I see the point in your argument, but don't you think that memories from many, many years ago will be different than present time? In the book it says that visual of the people singing and dancing, christmas lights and more; He recognized this exact thing from his memories from the giver. Do you really think he would reenact this exact scene but in real life?
I think that Jonas and Gabriel survived because in the text it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” In this last part of the book it does not say that Jonas and Gabriel died. The author also did not make it clear that he didn't die but, he was still standing out of the community.
In the quote that you have stated said that Jonas and Gabriel had heard music and that it was an echo, but an echo could have made him hear hallucinations before death.
I disagree because when it says perhaps it was only an echo, I think he was either hallucinating, or remembering the memory of the music. Also, they could die later, after the book ended.
He left the community, definitely. But the entire point of this assignment is t conclude whether or not they survived because the author didn't explain. Obviously Lois Lowery didn't explain the extent of life remaining in their bodies.
I disagree because the book abruptly stops, with no real context of what happened to Gabriel, or Jonas after they heard the Music. Jonas could also be reliving the first memory that the Giver gave to him, as he was dying or dead. The book also gives no context of Gabriel even being ON the sled, after Jonas saw the house, which leads me to believe that Jonas might have died, and just be reliving the memory and/or hallucinating the sled.
I disagree with this because the 2nd book may have nothing to do with the first book. Also, the characters may be different, and the plotline could be totally irrelevant.
Have you actually read the second book? Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that Jonas is alive. You have no real details from the book to support your answer. There are however many details to support that Jonas was having hallucinations and it was just a before-death experience.
I disagree because in the second book because the second book dosen´t show any evidence that Jonas and Gabriel survived. If you had read the second book you probably know what would happen.
I think they survived because they never said if he made it or not so im gonna say that he survived possibly because in the end of the book it said that he thought he hurd music but perhaps it was only an echo so maybe he was dreaming and maybe he made it out and survived.
I disagree because Gabe a Jonas were going on the journey long enough to be starving. It has been known that people hallucinate if they have been starved for long enough. This is why they were hallucinating what happened and didn't make it out alive.
I disagree Because (I dont want to sound mean, but) why would he be dreaming here? Where would he be sleeping or day dreaming? I believe after he used his final strength, he collapsed and hallucinated the rest of the book.Then died at the top of the mountain.
I disagree because music was an echo from behind him so back where the community was. If he was dreaming then he was hallucinating which means he hallucinated the sled and most of the objects around him, and it would mean he would died of exhaustion at the end.
I dont agree. I think when thinking about whether or not Jonas and Gabriel survived you cant just assume that they survived because it never said they survived or didnt. So I wish you could have gave a better argument.
I believe they survived because there are more books in the series and he would probably be the main character in those books. I also believe he survived because he heard people singing. I think this means that those people would have come to rescue him. A detail to support this is in the book it says ¨for the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing.¨
I disagree because you never know if the sequals will be about the same character. And even if it were of the same character, it could be in another world,or even in the afterlife.For your second reason, how could he get rescued if no other person was outside of elsewhere. And if there were people, they wouldn't know Jonas because Jonas hasn't been to elsewhere before. Singing won't indicate rescuing.
Even if there are more books, that does not mean the Jonas will be the main character. Also the singing that he hears for the first time doesn't mean that the people are coming to save him.
I disagree. Even though there are more books. That doesn't mean for sure Jonas is the main character. Also the people he heard could be from his life flashing before is eyes.
I disagree because I've heard about the other books and they have a completely different main character. Also, when he heard people singing I believe he was hallucinating due to hunger and the cold.
I think that Jonnas and Gabriel survived. I believe this because he heard and saw the village. Mirages don’t do sound and he wasn't actually starving. Sure he was hungry but he got a small amount of food from berrys and fish on page 173 it says almost impossible to find food, not impossible, almost impossible. They were far from well fed but were fed a bit. This is important because lack of food can make you see and hear things that aren’t there.
yes on page 173 he does get food but he gives most of it to gabrielle to keep him healthy leaving himself with little. but sometimes eating very little can be worse for you than not eating at all. so I still think jonas was hallucinating and hearing things because he only ate very little.
Well, you make some interesting points here, but you completely leave out the variable of hypothermia (freezing to death.) I think that hypothermia would probably be a main factor in their deaths (if they did die), and my personal opinion is that the sled represents them dying and the lights and music represent the memories leaving them completely.
I think by that time he was probably out of warm memories, because they had been traveling for so long in the snow. Jonas seems to be at stage 2 of hypothermia, which combined with the hunger and probably dehydration as well, they have an extremely low chance of surviving without medical attention. And also, just because they had a small amount of food doesn't mean that they aren't starving; if Jonas is having hallucinations along with the other medical conditions I mentioned, he is probably close to death and definitely requires professional medical help immediately.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel survived because it said in the book ¨For the first time, he heard something he knew to be music¨ and I don´t know but I don´t think you can hear music when you die or are dead as well as the book said suddenly he was aware with certainty and joy that below, ahead, they were waiting for him; and they were waiting, too, for the baby¨ so I think that they made it.
It says "perhaps it was only an echo." I feel that shows that his body is too cold and he is just hallucinating from the cold and he never actually heard the music.
The second thing you said was " they were waiting for him; and they were waiting, too, for the baby". This could just be a metaphor on him going closer and closer to death. The farther he goes the colder and less food he has.
There weren't any hints that Gabriel and Jonas died, so i didnt think they did. Plus it said in the book that Jonas had heard singing, music, and that he had been aware that there was joy below, so I think he survived and made it elsewhere. Plus, they didn't freeze to death because Jonas kept using the memory of warmth to keep them from freezing.
I think that he died. The spark of warmth was sort of like his dying bliss. He was already outside the community when he called upon his memory, so he would have already lost it. The joy of below was again, like dying, and knowing what is ahead will probably be better then what's happening now.
Firstly I don't think Jonas could've heard music because he had already lost his memories, so it'd seem he'd lose the ability to hear music too. Since Jonas' memory faded he wouldn't be able to survive without his memories. He was also already starved,so it seems more likely that they didn't survive because of that.
Well I could see you thinking that there weren't any of hints, but there is actually a couple of hints that shows that they did not survived. One example is on page 179 which one of the last sentences say that they heard music, but perhaps it was only an echo. This shows that they did not survive because they were probably hallucinating thinking that they were in the other community, but in reality they froze and starve to death.
I think Jonas and Gabe survived because at the end of the book it says that he heard a voice that was singing. Although this could be a hallucination, I think there was a real voice. I know this because in the text it says,” for the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing.” This leads me to believe that he did hear a singing voice and found a place with other people to live a better life with Gabe.
I disagree because; Jonas and Gabriel were going through starvation. It has been known that people hallucinate when going through starvation, so they were most likely to be hallucinating. This is why I disagree.
I disagree. With what you stated. I think he was in his final moments. The reason why I state that is when you die most people see moments from the past or known as your life flashing before your eyes. I think when he learned what music and singing were was the moment he saw before he died.
I think that Gabriel and Jonas could have survived because in the last part of the book it says, “He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding, and all at once he could see lights, and he recognized them now.” When it says that he had his eyes still open it means that he was still alive and living. Sure he was close to dying but he was still alive. In the book it said that they were starving and being frozen but Jonas still had the will to survive and live, to get to Elsewhere. In the book it also says, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright atop the sled,clutching Gabriel, keeping him safe.”
In the book it said Jonas no longer cared about himself, so if he was starving himself for Gabe, AND they were going through freezing conditions, AND Jonas is pushing himself to continue walking. There is 100% chance he got hypothermia. ( in real life ) and then Jonas would have hallucinations, he could have easily hallucinated the whole thing and was actually lying somewhere freezing and dying until he was dead.
I disagree because I believe that he lost consciousness and passed out after when the book said he used his final strength. Then he started to hallucinate himself with Gabe for the rest of the story, and dies afterwards.
When you say that Jonas is forcing his eyes open, Jonas is clearly dying of hypothermia and is using his remaining strength to TRY and keep himself alive when there absolutly no chance of survival.
You do have a valid point when you say that his eyes were open, but when people are dying saying I can see the light is an obvious giveaway that there dying. Also hearing voices is something that happens when people die in a lot of books. Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled. All of this points to him dying. He had a long journey and his body gave out. He had broken bones, was riding a bike that was too big, was starving, drinking dirty water and taking care of a baby. There is no way he could have survived. He used all his energy to get up the hill and when he got to the top it was just too much for him.
All of these are some good points but even if he was slowly freezing he was still alive and trying to protect Gabe. Jonas could also still feel the cold and things meaning he was still living.
I think that they both survive. For one, they have a sled to make traveling easier. Two, he has special knowledge and the ability to see beyond. Jonas has memories of survival so I think he will live.
I disagree with you. Here are my two counters to your two reasons. For your first reason, the sled was only at the end, and the part that was actually relevant to his survival, was the part where he transitions to elsewhere and hears the distant music. It is a big sign that Jonas may have died. For your second reason, Jonas does have memories of survival, but he doesn't have memories of what would happen if he crossed elsewhere.
I also disagree. In the book when it said there was a sled at the top of the mountain I believe it wasn't there. It wouldn't make sense if there was a sled on top of the mountain because, it was a tall mountain, and if you climb most mountains there wouldn't be a sled at the top. I think he was hallucinating the sled being there.
I disagree with you Person. For your first reason Jonas has already been traveling for a long time without the sled. He and Gabe are already beyond exhausted. For your second reason, Jonas' memories have already faded, so he couldn't use those to survive anyway.
I do think that he survives. For one he did sit on the sled and use it meaning that it is not a hallucination. My second reason has to do with the knowledge he did have of the sled, and found it, and he was aware (had knowledge) that down the hill, ahead, the people of elsewhere were waiting for him and Gabe.
i also disagree because he has been traveling for a long time without food. He also said it is hard to transfer a memory,and when he did the memory of food can and went fast .
The sled does not mean that he is still alive. He had a dream of a sled and could have been dreaming. And what memories does he have to survival. I don't think you could have lived with no food and no warmth.
I disagree. The ability to see beyond is to hear music or see colors. It makes no difference in a survival situation. Also the sled was the first Memory Jonas was given. Making it very probable he was recalling the memory as he died.
I definitely disagree because the "Capacity to see Beyond" is the capability to see colors. Other than that, he is just a normal human that just got chosen for the "Receiver of Memory". Also, his first memory was about riding down a hill on a red sled, seeing a house, with lights, an voices, which is exactly what he is experiencing. It is also highly doubtful that an infant, and a kid can survive in the wilderness, and harsh cold temperatures, with little to no food, water, and shelter.
The sled isn't a hallucination because he used and touched it. He had knowledge of the sled and it was there. He now is sure that the people of elsewhere were there and there is no evidence proving against it.
I disagree, because even if Jonas had memories of people in the wilderness surviving, by the time he reached the snowy mountain he would have lost that memory like the others. I also think that he hallucinated the sled, because it felt too convenient for a sled to just randomly be there. Finally the "capacity to see beyond" simply lets him see colors.
At the end of the Giver it is unclear if Jonas and Gabriel survive the snowstorm. I think that they survive because on the very final page, it says, “He heard people singing..” and “... form the place that he had left, he thought he heard music too…”. This is significant because that means that here is another community or village close by. When freezing to death, you will fall asleep and in your sleep, die. If Jonas goes to sleep,(that is when the book ends) then that means there is still time to save him. I think that there will be people coming by from the new community and they will save Jonas and Gabriel, while Jonas (who was narrating it) is unconscious.
I don't think Jonas survived. In the book it did say he was hearing music but, I think the cold and lack of food got into his head and he was hallucinating the village and music.
I do not think Jonas and Gabriel survived because they were starving. When people are starving, they can experience hallucinations. I think he was hallucinating the village and the music.
Jonas didn't survive because the music was from behind him not somewhere ahead of him. Also we learned from not eating food for days and not drinking water can make you hallucinate. So he could've been hallucinating sled and the music. So when he passes out then he probably died and Gabriel would died first because he's a baby which makes him weaker.
Jonas managed to escape the community, and even take the path to Elsewhere but possibly failed. If he is in the midst of a snow storm and has little to no body heat due to inflicting cold memories to keep hidden, then he will likely die. Based off of the movie, Jonas saw a house with festive lights, possibly lights he saw in his final moments. I have came to two conclusions: the house was from the memory and merely a figment of his dying imagination or, whoever created the memories knew that the community was going to oppressive and hide the past. So maybe the creator of memory designed an escape route in the memories that way when Jonas, or any other receiver of memory escaped, they would have a natural instinct of the escape route. The sled from the memories was there when jonas escaped; that is if it wasn't his imagination.
I don't think Jonas and Gabriel lived because of the very cold climate, especially Gabriel because he's very little and didn't have much clothes at the end I think it was either a hallucination or he was thinking about the memory the giver gave him
Many of you seem to infer from the text that he was hallucinating. I also was thinking that this might happen to them because of the physical strain, but there are some things that point to them surviving. For one, I tend not to listen to the movie for support because Hollywood gets a lot of things wrong, so I don't think that it is one house that he saw at the end of the book, i think he saw a free community. Where would he have seen multiple festive houses? In the memory of christmas that he received, he only saw one house so he could not have been seeing that. One of you said that the music he was hearing was coming from behind him. I would like to point out that you can't hallucinate recalling something from memory, because in the book, it said "through that vast distances of space and time" so he had to have heard it as a memory but he had never realized it was music until now because he was actually hearing it from the community that he had run into. If he was hearing music for the first time, he could not have been hallucinating.
I believe that Jonas and Gabriel survived after they left the community. I think this because, in the text, it says, “all at once he could see lights...he knew they were shining through the windows of rooms.” This shows that wherever Jonas and Gabriel ended up, there are people there to help them. Also stated in the text is, “They were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby.” This represents the fact that there are people there, and they are waiting for Jonas and Gabriel to come to them. This is important because we see do not see any evidence of Jonas and Gabriel dying, but we see them as exhausted but eventually finding their destination. This is why I believe that Jonas and Gabriel survived.
You bring up very solid points, but i still disagree. I see his vision as how in near-death experiences people can "see the light". The music can also be explained as an auditory hallucination brought on by lack of water to the brain. Jonas had dirty river water and nothing else fr his entire odyssey to bring back the memories.
I think they died because Jonas hearing music could be his last memory of the giver. I believe he died of starvation due to the fact that his body is used to eating food at a certain time, so when he stopped eating his body stopped working like it usually does and he soon died after. The people waiting for him could also be a memory just like the music. The people could be just a dream of a time in his life, like when he was given his name, or a ceremony.
What if, the person who created the memories firsthand, KNEW THAT A FUTURE RECEIVER OF MEMORY WAS GOING TO FIND A WAY OUT KNOWING THAT THE COMMUNITY WAS OPPRESSIVE? Jonas seemed disgusted with the deception of his leaders. Whoever created the memories must've thought about this beforehand and created an escape route in the memories. How else did Jonas make it to the sled from the memories? How did Jonas know the path? My argument would be invalid if it was merely Jonas experiencing his memories in his final moments as his mind dies but you opened me up to a new idea.
Well, you all bring up very valid points. However, even though the phrase “see the light” is usually used in scenarios of death, it was referring to Jonas literally seeing the light in the cabins. When you’re out on your own riding a bike and having to take care of a baby for weeks while not connecting to any kind of civilization, “precision of language” would not be on my list of things to do when I finally find people who can help me. Also, while traveling, Jonas found water almost every day. As it says on page 168, “The journey had become automatic; the sleep by day, hidden in underbrush and trees; the finding of water;” This proves that he regularly had access to water, and was therefore not suffering from lack of water. Additionally, as we see throughout the book, Jonas is very smart. On page 62, during The Ceremony of 12, The Chief Elder says to the community, “ ‘Intelligence, she said. We are all aware that Jonas has been a top student throughout his school days.” Therefore, Jonas is definitely intelligent enough to know if the water is dirty or not. You’d know if the water is dirty if it’s foggy looking, or unnatural in color, like brown. You may argue that Jonas couldn’t see color at this time, for he had left the community and therefore lost the memories. However, this is false. On page 166, it says, “As the memory seeped from him into the newchild...” This means that Jonas had not yet left the community’s boundaries, and therefore still had the power to give and receive memories, as well as see color. What was also brought up was that Jonas might be witnessing the memory again one last time before he dies. Well, by now he definitely left the boundaries of the community, as it says on page 174, “Dimly, from a nearly forgotten perception…” He didn’t remember this from the memory itself, but from his own memories, the ones he had made with The Giver. He and The Giver had discussed this memory after the vision had ended. Thus, he is remembering the discussion with The Giver, and the feeling of the discussion, and not the memory. Though all of your points are valid, there is simply not enough evidence to support the fact that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive.
I diagree because we learned in class when you dont eat are drink for a curtain amount of time you can start hallucinating So I think Jonas was hallucinating or just thinking about that memory
Well said, but Jonas had food that the Giver had given to him before he left. Even though he eventually ate all the food, it was within the last 24 hours it was all gone, and you can't hallucinate that badly in that short amount of time. And Jonas had no recollection of the memory. Unfortunately, I do not have my copy of The Giver available to me at the moment, but I can tell you that within the last 2-3 pages, Jonas says that he recalls something, like a feeling. The only reason he knows it's a memory is because he remembers receiving it and talking about it with The Giver. That memory was made by him, and so will always stay with him. So, Jonas couldn't have hallucinated because he would have had to go for several days to hallucinate that badly. He couldn't have been remembering the memory because the actual memory was lost to the community. In conclusion, the evidence adds up to show us that Jonas and Gabriel survived.
I think Jonas and gabriel survived because in the last few pages of the book it seemed like Jonas heard music and could see something in the last page or so he heard people talking and saw old people and that makes me think that he saw grandparents because in his community they had the house of the old but elsewhere doesn't have the house of the old. And people in his community apparently don't hear music but he did because he was somewhere else and the other people heard it,so it probably means that he is not within his community
I disagree, but you brought up a solid point. Jonas feels like he is losing consciousness, the sled can only ride on snow. Jonas' clothing is light, and made for warm weather. Hypothermia happens when the body gets too cold to function properly, A common symptom of hypothermia is exhaustion or dizziness
I disagree because the very last sentence says "But perhaps it was only an echo." I think he was remembering the memory of the music that the Giver gave to him earlier. He could have lost consciousness, and remember memories, because like you said he saw grandparents and that could have also been the older memory.
I disagree with this because Jonas was loosing consciousness, and I believe he died. There isn't a lot of evidence saying he survived, and even if he did see his grandparents house, the book says "perhaps it was only an echo"
I´m sorry but I disagree. Yes he said he heard music and sawed people in the distance he was still at the point where starving and freezing to death. When he was starting to freeze and starve to death he was starting to hallucinate causing him to lose his memory forgeting that he was going to die.
Jonas could have easily gotten hypothermia and hallucinated the whole thing. Also the book said 'Across vast distances of space and time from where he once lived' means it was coming from his community which is impossible for him to hear without being dead.
There are big signs of jonas dying, for example he was cold,dizzy and hungry which could mean hes just sick but when he saw the lights and heard the music as he was using the last of his strength to get up the hill is a big sign that he was entering heaven.
I disagree with you because in the book it said that it could've been an echo so he could have remembered the memories that the giver gave him and it could have been that.
I think Jonas and Gabriel survived at the end of The Giver. Throughout the end of the book, Jonas and The Giver discuss him leaving the community. As a result, the memories he holds would return to the community giving them a sense of what life was like before the government-controlled every aspect. I believe that Jonas found an untouched civilization after riding down the hill in the sled. They were enjoying spending time together in their house while playing music. This is precisely how Jonas envisioned a perfect community and a cliche but believable ending to the book.
Hey,I really don't think they survived because he was seeing things that weren't there.But there is more books about the giver and I know there is a book about jonas...
I will in fact proof you wrong in this response Emercon. If you really think out what was stated in the last page you can see that it puts things that relate to death but I can see where you are trying to go. It says things like there was only an echo and saying that he left space and time. Which puts my thinking in the way of death for Jonas and Gabriel.
It certainly does sound like someone dying at the end. However the author even wrote that she thinks it was an optimistic ending. Does this prove he lives? No but I think Jonas found a real community like one of ours untouched by the government that rules Jonas's home.
I dont think that they survived. However I do think that they made it Elsewhere. For example on page 178 and 179 they talk about hearing music and feeling joy. This is what I think to be them dieing. And the music and the memories of love are what they go to when they are going Elsewhere. Like that place of peace when you die. Elsewhere is where you go when you die.
You bring up good points, but also I think elsewhere is a place you go when you're released, not dead, like an endless abyss. But, sice you do make the point that they didn't survive, I think you're partially right.
I am confused, I do also think that there is a tiny possibility that they made it to elsewhere, but I think they died. Also you wrote I don't think they survived in the link that says I think they survived.
I think elsewhere begins after the hill. Evidence of Jonas dying comes before he finished sliding down. Then again, the whole vision of Elsewhere could have just been a figment of Jonas's imagination.
I think Jonas and Gabriel survived because he didn’t starve. He went on for a few days without food, but not long enough to die from it. At the end of the book, he was experiencing a memory he had before. It also said he used more of his courage to finish the long, hard journey. Also nothing went wrong with his plan, besides the food problem, and the sled went fine.
I disagree. I think they died because his body is used to eating and if he goes a while without food his body is going to malfunction. I believe he died of starvation because when his body realized he wasn't getting any food if shut down and he passed out and soon later died.
I disagree because Jonas was starving and you can't live without food. Another reason is that when Jonas heard people singing that could be the memories leaving him.
If you have water than the average human can survive without food for about 25 days, but in Jonas's freezing and harsh conditions, plus the water he was drinking was frigid cold since it was winter. Jonas would not have made it. Those conditions are the perfect for someone to freeze to death. Also how in the world is the sled still there after a long long long long time? It was in his memory when he saw the sled. In the book they would always say before me back, and back, and back. The sled would have decomposed by then or someone would have taken it home. I think he hallucinated the whole thing and died.
I disagree. I think he didn't survive because there is only so much the human body can take. Jonas wasn't a very strong kid and was never trained for these conditions. When he reached the bottom his brain had the courage to go on but I believe his body did not. I think he hallucinated being with people or hearing singing or music.
I disagree because there was no other stable source of food and even for Gabriel because he is a baby he needs food even more badly than Jonas not only that if he was experiencing a memory then it could've been from him hallucination and him nearing death.
How could have he know about a sled placed on top of a hill. It would have rusted by then. And also he could have starved because he was not eating enough for the energy he was using.
I believe that Jonas and Gabrial both survived their trip to Elsewhere. In the last few pages of the book, there is a couple of things at the end of the book that proves my point. If Jonas was truly hallucinating, then why would he feel the “wind whipping at his face”. Another thing: I think that the sled is real because he could feel his “hands numbly reaching for the ropes”. I think that the ropes are real. If they were fake he wouldn’t have had to struggle. If it was a hallucination, he would have imagined himself just reaching for it. The first memory he had was of himself going down the hill in a sled. And in the memory, he did not have to fumble for the ropes in that memory. So he wasn’t living that old memory.
You make a good point but why would a sled randomly be on the top of a frigid mountain. Also, if he was hallucinating like I think he was he probably would have still felt the wind on his face. Like you said, the first memory he got was on a sled. So, I believe that he was hallucinating that memory and that he died.
You have a good point, but I think that he gets up the hill and then dies. You say that he could feel it and that he fumbles for the ropes but he could feel the sled before, too. It says on page 81 that he "cut through the frigid air" Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled.
Hi, You all have made very compelling points! I still think that he survived though. On the last page of the book it says " He thought he heard music coming from behind him. but perhaps it was only an echo." It says that the music is coming from behind him. So I think that he was hearing his community singing after they found out about the past. You guys also mentioned that the happy memories at the end was him dying. I think that it is the burden of all of the memories the Giver gave him, getting released and he is feeling elated from this.
I think gabe and jonas survived because the community they found could be a community full of singers and are welcoming them. also the singing could not have happened at all and jonas could have imagined it. i don't think they could die because if jonas died there wouldn't be a book because who would be telling the story because we know the giver was going to die because he was growing old. so the only possible way to have someone is narrating the story is the by jonas is reading it to someone like his kids or gabe. also i looked it up and in book 4 of the giver the article said that gabe and jonas were still alive {sorry} .
Ok first of all we are talking about this book not book 4. And second it says it is a "echo" witch is probably hallucination because he hasn't got food in a while. So he probably died of starvation .(does not say in book)
It's kind of hard to follow your reasoning. We don't know that the Giver is going to die, and that doesn't support your answer. The book is in 3rd person narration, so it doesn't have anything to do with Jonas reading or narrating the book. The book describes that Jonas heard echos from space and time. This is probably his imagination, signifying that he will die soon.
I disagree because at the end he was using his last strength and memories. But when he saw the red sled at the end he can't magically create a sled and house so he was just hallucinating about his first memories also it said in the book that it could have been just an echo.
I disagree. The point you are trying to make is not actually from the first book. Your evidence is not from the text. Your argument is essentially a google search result.
I believe Jonas and Gabriel survived their journey into the unknown. At the end of the book, Jonas hears music and sees lights. From the description, Jonas saw the lights look like they are candles inside a window. What Jonas saw was so detailed, that it is hard to believe he died. He didn’t have any memory of candles. He also hasn’t heard singing in real life, just from his memories. He also had Gabriel with him still. He could feel Gabriel. If Jonas was dead he wouldn’t feel Gabriel.
At the end of the book it says that he also heard music back in the community but that wouldn't have been physically possible. Also, I believe that he was hallucinating in detail because he had so many memories so it would be easy to believe that his brain hallucinated all of that.
i disagree because he was starving and he was becoming so weak that it would make sense that he died, The fact that he was starving and he was becoming weak and that he saw lights and heard music which could be a sign of him entering heaven. Those are all big signs of him dying.
First of all, you didn't provide a source for your claims. Second of all, he did have memories of lights and candles. I have the movie as my source. You can see that when Jonas gets to the bottom of the hill, he sees a house with festive lights and decorations. What you said was untrue to an extent, but I too am beginning to believe that Jonas survived. Maybe the creator of the memories planned an escape route using the memories. How else did the sled get there? I don't know, just felt I should debunk your unsupported claims.
I think they did survive because the story keeps on going. There is a 2nd book. They hear going down the hill. Think they survived because they were getting warm too.
The other books are companion books. They are not based off of Jonas and his story, it merely follows the story of other community members. Also, when you die you feel warm. People who have nearly died explain that death isn't allows cold and painful. Jonas can't miraculously become warm after casting cold memories upon himself and in the midst of a snow storm. A man in specific from Chicago was shot with a shotgun and described his experience. He said that he felt "warm" and "sleepy". Maybe Jonas felt this sensation as well? Jonas said he was struggling to stay conscious. When you are tired, you also struggle to stay conscious. The combination of this and the fact he felt warm (according to you although you cited no page number) makes me believe that he was dying.
There is no detail from the book we are reading to support this answer. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean it has anything to do with Jonas and Gabriel. In addition, most of these things that Jonas is feeling are probably hallucinations.
Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that they survived. If anything it means that they didn't survive because its about a different person.
I disagree. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that they survived the second book could be about the rest of the community and how they reacted to that. Also when he saw the sled, the lights and the house he was hallucinating because the only way he could have saw that stuff was if he magically created it or was hallucinating. Also when he saw the sled, lights and house he did not eat or drink a lot and he was really cold so he was probably hallucinating.
Objection. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that the same protagonist is in it. The second book may have the same concept but different characters. Or it could be an entirely different book. So just because there are two books is not a solid statement.
I totally disagree. The evidence is supposed to be in the text. The argument that there are more books does not work. The next book is based on a totally different character.
I think they did survive because the story keeps on going, they say that as they are sliding down the hill they can hear music. It nevers says that they fell off the sled or something happened. "Behind him,across vast distances of space and time from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." So he is still alive he just hears music. So when he is going down the hill hears that music and he is still alive.
ReplyDeleteI disigree because he could have been in a dream.(his last) In this dream he dreamped of his fist meomorys.
DeleteThe quote said in your statement said that he had left space and time which makes me come to a conclusion that Jonas and Gabriel had died.
DeleteI disagree because he could have been hallucinating the music before he died.
DeleteI disagree because he was probably hallucinating and enjoying his last memory.
DeleteI get what you are saying but in the book it never clearly says or gives any clear info that he died. It says that he went down the hill and when he got to the bottom he heard singing like a sound of success that he has made it through. It is possible that there was not really singing but I don't think he died.
DeleteThe human brain still has a few minutes, if not moments of consciousness before it dies. "Vast distances of space and time" isn't something people use to describe hearing music. When you listen to music, do you say "I hear something over vast distances of space and time"? Absolutely not.Also, the entire point of this assignment is concluding whether or not Jonas survived because the author left it open ended. Of course the author didn't say something bad happened.
DeleteI disagree because when he was hearing music he was hallucinating because he was tired starving cold and thirsty so his body could not take it anymore.
DeleteJonas and Gabriel survived because when they were going down the sled it had to many details to be a hallucination or an after death experience. On page 178 it states "He forced his eyes open as they went downwards, downward, sliding, and at once he could see lights and he recognized them now. He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were the red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees.
ReplyDeleteBut he has a memory of the house and the sled, so he could be experiencing his first memory one last time before he died.
DeleteYour paragraph is very confusing because you say that they survive, but you also say that the sled and the lights were an 'after death experience'. You are essentially saying that they both survived and died, so I am kind of lost on what you are trying to say with this.
DeleteYour details and reasoning are very mixed up with your answer. That is certainly an after-death experience, so it has nothing to do with Jonas and Gabriel being alive. In addition, hallucinations can be very vivid and real. That's the whole point of them being hallucinations. It was extremely cold outside when they were riding down the sled, so it is very believable that they died.
DeleteI get your point but hallucinations are often very vivid. And considering Jonas had the memory of the sled that was a part of someones actual experience. At the end of the day it does not make much sense that the specific sled and area are there. It seems to good to be true and most of the evidence points to Jonas and Gabe dying.
DeleteCal, How would Jona know what the outside of the houses looked like to such detail when In the sledding memory There was no mention of any houses. The book never mentions what the houses look like so then even if he had very vivid hallucinations he would not even know about the correct lighting color, and other details and the chances of his hallucinations matching that perfectly would be very small.
DeleteI disagree because the only reason that he saw the sled and the lights was because he was hallucinating about the first memory that he had
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel survived. I think Jonas and Gabriel survived because at the end of the book the heard singing and saw lights hanging from trees. It was christmas in another comunity.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. For one, at the end of the book, it says "Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." Which might mean that they were about to die and fall asleep forever.
DeleteHe could have just been hallucinating. He also could be just thinking about his memory.
DeleteHe could have easily been hallucinating because it seems very unrealistic that he would relive his first memory with the sled, all over again. He also said he was losing consciousness, and possibly he died.
DeleteThe music and the lights could be the memory of christmas, Jonas really liked that memory so he could of hallucinated it before he died. In the book it also says that it could have been an echo which might mean that it didn't really happen.
DeleteThe music and lights was from the memory he experienced before the incident. What he was experiencing was possibly real, but you fail to acknowledge previous evidence. I have changed my mind as to whether or not Jonas and Gabriel survived, but you can't neglect evidence.
DeleteI disagree with you because he was pretty much in the middle of nowhere, there's no way that he is going to see another community and the lights too.
Deletei disagree because he was hulusinateing because he was about to die
Deletei disagree because when they were going up the mountain it said that its started to get foggy and i was so cold and hungry. so i think that they died and that the rest of the book was a dream and when he said that he heard music and saw lights that was all just a hillosinashion. and when he says he can hear that was also a hillosinashion just because it seams that it couldn't be a hilloinashion dose'nt mean that its not.
DeleteI disagree because he could be hallucinating because he was very cold and he was super tired.
DeleteI believe that Jonas and Gabriel did survive. On page 179 it says "he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo". So I think that they finally made it to their destination and heard music to prove that they were gone from the community.
ReplyDeleteYou raise a good point, but the music may not of indicated that. The last page also said that someone was waiting for them, which could be death.
DeleteI think that the music was more of a distant memory or his mind wanting to hear music. It also could be some sort of "choir of angels ascension" or something as he dies
DeleteI think that when he heard the music it was his memoirs escaping his mind when he was dying
DeleteIn Jonas's condition he could have gotten hypothermia, the hypothermia would have cause hallucinations. This would explain why he was able to hear the music, the book said behind him, across vast distances of space and time, he thought he heard music. No one can hear that far away so it can easily he a hallucination.
DeleteIn the quote that you have stated said that Jonas and Gabriel had heard music and that it was an echo, but an echo could have made him hear hallucinations before seasoning away into death.
DeleteYou have a good point but the music does not mean he survived. It could be and indicator, but it could also be a metaphor for angels singing or something like that, He could be hallucinating, could be him just thinking about a memory.
DeleteJonas did not survive because He is died the reason I know he is alive
DeleteI think you make a great point Danielle. I just dont believe that louis lowry would have make that last sentence "but perhaps it was only just an echo" if Jonas did see something siding down the hill in the sled with Gabreil dont you think he would have heard more than just "an echo"
DeleteJonas and Gabriel survived because right at the end jonas heard music On page 179 it says "For the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing." He also saw lights that he perceived were for christmas. On page 178 it says "He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees in places where families created and kept memories, where they celebrated love." That's really specific
ReplyDeletebut jonas had been told all these things in memories from the giver meaning he could just be hallucinating. on the verge of death due to lack of food.
DeleteHe could have been hallucinating because their was a sled that was just their they never said anything about the sled or how it got their. and i think that when they went on the sled that was when they died.
DeleteI think he was hallucinating from starving or the cold or before he died he had one last memory
DeleteI disagree because he could have been hallucinating thinking that he was in the community, but he probably would have starve or froze to death trying to come to the community losing his memory from it.
DeleteI see the point in your argument, but don't you think that memories from many, many years ago will be different than present time? In the book it says that visual of the people singing and dancing, christmas lights and more; He recognized this exact thing from his memories from the giver. Do you really think he would reenact this exact scene but in real life?
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel survived because in the text it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” In this last part of the book it does not say that Jonas and Gabriel died. The author also did not make it clear that he didn't die but, he was still standing out of the community.
ReplyDeleteIn the quote that you have stated said that Jonas and Gabriel had heard music and that it was an echo, but an echo could have made him hear hallucinations before death.
DeleteI disagree because when it says perhaps it was only an echo, I think he was either hallucinating, or remembering the memory of the music. Also, they could die later, after the book ended.
DeleteHe left the community, definitely. But the entire point of this assignment is t conclude whether or not they survived because the author didn't explain. Obviously Lois Lowery didn't explain the extent of life remaining in their bodies.
DeleteI disagree because the book abruptly stops, with no real context of what happened to Gabriel, or Jonas after they heard the Music. Jonas could also be reliving the first memory that the Giver gave to him, as he was dying or dead. The book also gives no context of Gabriel even being ON the sled, after Jonas saw the house, which leads me to believe that Jonas might have died, and just be reliving the memory and/or hallucinating the sled.
Deletei think jonas is alive because there is a 2nd book
ReplyDeleteI disagree with this because the 2nd book may have nothing to do with the first book. Also, the characters may be different, and the plotline could be totally irrelevant.
Deletethe book could be about the after math of what happend in the first book
Deletehi brady, I know that there is more books but that doesn't mean jonas is still alive,I think that jonas is dead but he could be not in the book...
DeleteHave you actually read the second book? Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that Jonas is alive. You have no real details from the book to support your answer. There are however many details to support that Jonas was having hallucinations and it was just a before-death experience.
DeleteThe second book could have been about the community that he left behind it doesn't have to do anything with Jonas and Gabriel
DeleteThis makes little to no sense. You can argue Jonas and Gabe survived but not this way. The next book is based around a totally different character.
DeleteI think the 2nd book is about how the community was after he left and when they could see color and they had lots of changes
DeleteJust because there is a second book doesn't mean they have the same charters. Or the same storyline.
DeleteI disagree because in the second book because the second book dosen´t show any evidence that Jonas and Gabriel survived. If you had read the second book you probably know what would happen.
DeleteI disagree because the second book has nothing to do with jonas.
DeleteI think they survived because they never said if he made it or not so im gonna say that he survived possibly because in the end of the book it said that he thought he hurd music but perhaps it was only an echo so maybe he was dreaming and maybe he made it out and survived.
ReplyDeleteI disagree because Gabe a Jonas were going on the journey long enough to be starving. It has been known that people hallucinate if they have been starved for long enough. This is why they were hallucinating what happened and didn't make it out alive.
DeleteI disagree Because (I dont want to sound mean, but) why would he be dreaming here? Where would he be sleeping or day dreaming? I believe after he used his final strength, he collapsed and hallucinated the rest of the book.Then died at the top of the mountain.
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DeleteI disagree because music was an echo from behind him so back where the community was. If he was dreaming then he was hallucinating which means he hallucinated the sled and most of the objects around him, and it would mean he would died of exhaustion at the end.
DeleteI disagree because the echo was probably him hallucinating because he had no food or water and he was starving.
DeleteI dont agree. I think when thinking about whether or not Jonas and Gabriel survived you cant just assume that they survived because it never said they survived or didnt. So I wish you could have gave a better argument.
DeleteI believe they survived because there are more books in the series and he would probably be the main character in those books. I also believe he survived because he heard people singing. I think this means that those people would have come to rescue him. A detail to support this is in the book it says ¨for the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing.¨
ReplyDeleteI disagree because you never know if the sequals will be about the same character. And even if it were of the same character, it could be in another world,or even in the afterlife.For your second reason, how could he get rescued if no other person was outside of elsewhere. And if there were people, they wouldn't know Jonas because Jonas hasn't been to elsewhere before. Singing won't indicate rescuing.
DeleteEven if there are more books, that does not mean the Jonas will be the main character. Also the singing that he hears for the first time doesn't mean that the people are coming to save him.
DeleteI disagree because in the book it does say he herd people sing but I feel like it is him dying and going to the great beyond
DeleteI disagree. Even though there are more books. That doesn't mean for sure Jonas is the main character. Also the people he heard could be from his life flashing before is eyes.
DeleteI disagree.This point is not the best.Just because there are more books does not mean Jonas survived.
DeleteI disagree because I've heard about the other books and they have a completely different main character. Also, when he heard people singing I believe he was hallucinating due to hunger and the cold.
DeleteI think that Jonnas and Gabriel survived. I believe this because he heard and saw the village. Mirages don’t do sound and he wasn't actually starving. Sure he was hungry but he got a small amount of food from berrys and fish on page 173 it says almost impossible to find food, not impossible, almost impossible. They were far from well fed but were fed a bit. This is important because lack of food can make you see and hear things that aren’t there.
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Deleteyes on page 173 he does get food but he gives most of it to gabrielle to keep him healthy leaving himself with little. but sometimes eating very little can be worse for you than not eating at all. so I still think jonas was hallucinating and hearing things because he only ate very little.
DeleteWell, you make some interesting points here, but you completely leave out the variable of hypothermia (freezing to death.) I think that hypothermia would probably be a main factor in their deaths (if they did die), and my personal opinion is that the sled represents them dying and the lights and music represent the memories leaving them completely.
Deletebut it said in the book that he could still muster up some level of warm memory to keep him self and Gabe warm.
DeleteI think by that time he was probably out of warm memories, because they had been traveling for so long in the snow. Jonas seems to be at stage 2 of hypothermia, which combined with the hunger and probably dehydration as well, they have an extremely low chance of surviving without medical attention. And also, just because they had a small amount of food doesn't mean that they aren't starving; if Jonas is having hallucinations along with the other medical conditions I mentioned, he is probably close to death and definitely requires professional medical help immediately.
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel survived because it said in the book ¨For the first time, he heard something he knew to be music¨ and I don´t know but I don´t think you can hear music when you die or are dead as well as the book said suddenly he was aware with certainty and joy that below, ahead, they were waiting for him; and they were waiting, too, for the baby¨ so I think that they made it.
ReplyDeleteThat could be true, but I think after he heard the music he passed from the cold and from not eating.
DeleteI think the music Jonas heard was a hallucination. After that, he died from starvation and cold.
Deletei think the music was only a hallucination. when he was trying to stay alive.
DeleteIt says "perhaps it was only an echo." I feel that shows that his body is too cold and he is just hallucinating from the cold and he never actually heard the music.
DeleteI get your point but I disagree. Everything from the music to the joy he felt could be a hallucination.
DeleteThe second thing you said was " they were waiting for him; and they were waiting, too, for the baby". This could just be a metaphor on him going closer and closer to death. The farther he goes the colder and less food he has.
DeleteThere weren't any hints that Gabriel and Jonas died, so i didnt think they did. Plus it said in the book that Jonas had heard singing, music, and that he had been aware that there was joy below, so I think he survived and made it elsewhere. Plus, they didn't freeze to death because Jonas kept using the memory of warmth to keep them from freezing.
ReplyDeleteI think that he died. The spark of warmth was sort of like his dying bliss. He was already outside the community when he called upon his memory, so he would have already lost it. The joy of below was again, like dying, and knowing what is ahead will probably be better then what's happening now.
DeleteFirstly I don't think Jonas could've heard music because he had already lost his memories, so it'd seem he'd lose the ability to hear music too. Since Jonas' memory faded he wouldn't be able to survive without his memories. He was also already starved,so it seems more likely that they didn't survive because of that.
Deletei dont agree with u. As i think that the giver is not true with his words in the book.
DeleteI think that they did not survive the memories I feel were gone and he never gave him the memory of warmth and I think Jonas is just hallucinating.
Deletethey said they were waiting for him
Deleteit could be death
jonas was hallucinating
Well I could see you thinking that there weren't any of hints, but there is actually a couple of hints that shows that they did not survived. One example is on page 179 which one of the last sentences say that they heard music, but perhaps it was only an echo. This shows that they did not survive because they were probably hallucinating thinking that they were in the other community, but in reality they froze and starve to death.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabe survived because at the end of the book it says that he heard a voice that was singing. Although this could be a hallucination, I think there was a real voice. I know this because in the text it says,” for the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music. He heard people singing.” This leads me to believe that he did hear a singing voice and found a place with other people to live a better life with Gabe.
ReplyDeleteI disagree because when he went on the sled and after I think they were all hallucinations and his memories fading out of his mind.
DeleteI disagree because; Jonas and Gabriel were going through starvation. It has been known that people hallucinate when going through starvation, so they were most likely to be hallucinating. This is why I disagree.
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DeleteI disagree. With what you stated. I think he was in his final moments. The reason why I state that is when you die most people see moments from the past or known as your life flashing before your eyes. I think when he learned what music and singing were was the moment he saw before he died.
DeleteI think that Gabriel and Jonas could have survived because in the last part of the book it says, “He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding, and all at once he could see lights, and he recognized them now.” When it says that he had his eyes still open it means that he was still alive and living. Sure he was close to dying but he was still alive. In the book it said that they were starving and being frozen but Jonas still had the will to survive and live, to get to Elsewhere. In the book it also says, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright atop the sled,clutching Gabriel, keeping him safe.”
ReplyDeleteIn the book it said Jonas no longer cared about himself, so if he was starving himself for Gabe, AND they were going through freezing conditions, AND Jonas is pushing himself to continue walking. There is 100% chance he got hypothermia. ( in real life ) and then Jonas would have hallucinations, he could have easily hallucinated the whole thing and was actually lying somewhere freezing and dying until he was dead.
DeleteI disagree because I believe that he lost consciousness and passed out after when the book said he used his final strength. Then he started to hallucinate himself with Gabe for the rest of the story, and dies afterwards.
DeleteWhen you say that Jonas is forcing his eyes open, Jonas is clearly dying of hypothermia and is using his remaining strength to TRY and keep himself alive when there absolutly no chance of survival.
DeleteYou do have a valid point when you say that his eyes were open, but when people are dying saying I can see the light is an obvious giveaway that there dying. Also hearing voices is something that happens when people die in a lot of books. Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled. All of this points to him dying. He had a long journey and his body gave out. He had broken bones, was riding a bike that was too big, was starving, drinking dirty water and taking care of a baby. There is no way he could have survived. He used all his energy to get up the hill and when he got to the top it was just too much for him.
DeleteAll of these are some good points but even if he was slowly freezing he was still alive and trying to protect Gabe. Jonas could also still feel the cold and things meaning he was still living.
DeleteI think that they both survive. For one, they have a sled to make traveling easier. Two, he has special knowledge and the ability to see beyond. Jonas has memories of survival so I think he will live.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you. Here are my two counters to your two reasons. For your first reason, the sled was only at the end, and the part that was actually relevant to his survival, was the part where he transitions to elsewhere and hears the distant music. It is a big sign that Jonas may have died. For your second reason, Jonas does have memories of survival, but he doesn't have memories of what would happen if he crossed elsewhere.
DeleteI think he does not survive because how did the sled get there? I think the sled was a hallucination.
DeleteI also disagree. In the book when it said there was a sled at the top of the mountain I believe it wasn't there. It wouldn't make sense if there was a sled on top of the mountain because, it was a tall mountain, and if you climb most mountains there wouldn't be a sled at the top. I think he was hallucinating the sled being there.
DeleteI disagree with you Person. For your first reason Jonas has already been traveling for a long time without the sled. He and Gabe are already beyond exhausted. For your second reason, Jonas' memories have already faded, so he couldn't use those to survive anyway.
DeleteI do think that he survives. For one he did sit on the sled and use it meaning that it is not a hallucination. My second reason has to do with the knowledge he did have of the sled, and found it, and he was aware (had knowledge) that down the hill, ahead, the people of elsewhere were waiting for him and Gabe.
Deletei also disagree because he has been traveling for a long time without food. He also said it is hard to transfer a memory,and when he did the memory of food can and went fast .
DeleteI do not agree with you. I think that the sled was a hallucination and that he died from the cold and starvation.
DeleteThe sled does not mean that he is still alive. He had a dream of a sled and could have been dreaming. And what memories does he have to survival. I don't think you could have lived with no food and no warmth.
DeleteHis memorys were almost gone.He would have to make it up to the sled first before he could use it.
DeleteI disagree with you because you said that he survived because he had the sled but theres a lot more issues like food that would cause him to die.
DeleteI disagree. The ability to see beyond is to hear music or see colors. It makes no difference in a survival situation.
DeleteAlso the sled was the first Memory Jonas was given. Making it very probable he was recalling the memory as he died.
I definitely disagree because the "Capacity to see Beyond" is the capability to see colors. Other than that, he is just a normal human that just got chosen for the "Receiver of Memory". Also, his first memory was about riding down a hill on a red sled, seeing a house, with lights, an voices, which is exactly what he is experiencing. It is also highly doubtful that an infant, and a kid can survive in the wilderness, and harsh cold temperatures, with little to no food, water, and shelter.
DeleteThe sled isn't a hallucination because he used and touched it. He had knowledge of the sled and it was there. He now is sure that the people of elsewhere were there and there is no evidence proving against it.
DeleteI disagree, because even if Jonas had memories of people in the wilderness surviving, by the time he reached the snowy mountain he would have lost that memory like the others. I also think that he hallucinated the sled, because it felt too convenient for a sled to just randomly be there. Finally the "capacity to see beyond" simply lets him see colors.
DeleteAt the end of the Giver it is unclear if Jonas and Gabriel survive the snowstorm. I think that they survive because on the very final page, it says, “He heard people singing..” and “... form the place that he had left, he thought he heard music too…”. This is significant because that means that here is another community or village close by. When freezing to death, you will fall asleep and in your sleep, die. If Jonas goes to sleep,(that is when the book ends) then that means there is still time to save him. I think that there will be people coming by from the new community and they will save Jonas and Gabriel, while Jonas (who was narrating it) is unconscious.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Jonas survived. In the book it did say he was hearing music but, I think the cold and lack of food got into his head and he was hallucinating the village and music.
DeleteI think they did not survive because the music and sled were all in his head and he was hallucinating.
DeleteI do not think Jonas and Gabriel survived because they were starving. When people are starving, they can experience hallucinations. I think he was hallucinating the village and the music.
DeleteI dont think jonas survived because he had no food left and it had goten stuck in his head and he is realy cold
DeleteJonas didn't survive because the music was from behind him not somewhere ahead of him. Also we learned from not eating food for days and not drinking water can make you hallucinate. So he could've been hallucinating sled and the music. So when he passes out then he probably died and Gabriel would died first because he's a baby which makes him weaker.
DeleteJonas managed to escape the community, and even take the path to Elsewhere but possibly failed. If he is in the midst of a snow storm and has little to no body heat due to inflicting cold memories to keep hidden, then he will likely die. Based off of the movie, Jonas saw a house with festive lights, possibly lights he saw in his final moments. I have came to two conclusions: the house was from the memory and merely a figment of his dying imagination or, whoever created the memories knew that the community was going to oppressive and hide the past. So maybe the creator of memory designed an escape route in the memories that way when Jonas, or any other receiver of memory escaped, they would have a natural instinct of the escape route. The sled from the memories was there when jonas escaped; that is if it wasn't his imagination.
DeleteI don't think Jonas and Gabriel lived because of the very cold climate, especially Gabriel because he's very little and didn't have much clothes at the end I think it was either a hallucination or he was thinking about the memory the giver gave him
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DeleteMany of you seem to infer from the text that he was hallucinating. I also was thinking that this might happen to them because of the physical strain, but there are some things that point to them surviving. For one, I tend not to listen to the movie for support because Hollywood gets a lot of things wrong, so I don't think that it is one house that he saw at the end of the book, i think he saw a free community. Where would he have seen multiple festive houses? In the memory of christmas that he received, he only saw one house so he could not have been seeing that. One of you said that the music he was hearing was coming from behind him. I would like to point out that you can't hallucinate recalling something from memory, because in the book, it said "through that vast distances of space and time" so he had to have heard it as a memory but he had never realized it was music until now because he was actually hearing it from the community that he had run into. If he was hearing music for the first time, he could not have been hallucinating.
DeleteI believe that Jonas and Gabriel survived after they left the community. I think this because, in the text, it says, “all at once he could see lights...he knew they were shining through the windows of rooms.” This shows that wherever Jonas and Gabriel ended up, there are people there to help them. Also stated in the text is, “They were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby.” This represents the fact that there are people there, and they are waiting for Jonas and Gabriel to come to them. This is important because we see do not see any evidence of Jonas and Gabriel dying, but we see them as exhausted but eventually finding their destination. This is why I believe that Jonas and Gabriel survived.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up very solid points, but i still disagree. I see his vision as how in near-death experiences people can "see the light". The music can also be explained as an auditory hallucination brought on by lack of water to the brain. Jonas had dirty river water and nothing else fr his entire odyssey to bring back the memories.
DeleteI think they died because Jonas hearing music could be his last memory of the giver. I believe he died of starvation due to the fact that his body is used to eating food at a certain time, so when he stopped eating his body stopped working like it usually does and he soon died after. The people waiting for him could also be a memory just like the music. The people could be just a dream of a time in his life, like when he was given his name, or a ceremony.
Deletehe was probably hallucinating
Deletethe death was waiting for him .
death is waitting for him
DeleteWhat if, the person who created the memories firsthand, KNEW THAT A FUTURE RECEIVER OF MEMORY WAS GOING TO FIND A WAY OUT KNOWING THAT THE COMMUNITY WAS OPPRESSIVE? Jonas seemed disgusted with the deception of his leaders. Whoever created the memories must've thought about this beforehand and created an escape route in the memories. How else did Jonas make it to the sled from the memories? How did Jonas know the path? My argument would be invalid if it was merely Jonas experiencing his memories in his final moments as his mind dies but you opened me up to a new idea.
DeleteWell, you all bring up very valid points. However, even though the phrase “see the light” is usually used in scenarios of death, it was referring to Jonas literally seeing the light in the cabins. When you’re out on your own riding a bike and having to take care of a baby for weeks while not connecting to any kind of civilization, “precision of language” would not be on my list of things to do when I finally find people who can help me. Also, while traveling, Jonas found water almost every day. As it says on page 168, “The journey had become automatic; the sleep by day, hidden in underbrush and trees; the finding of water;” This proves that he regularly had access to water, and was therefore not suffering from lack of water. Additionally, as we see throughout the book, Jonas is very smart. On page 62, during The Ceremony of 12, The Chief Elder says to the community, “ ‘Intelligence, she said. We are all aware that Jonas has been a top student throughout his school days.” Therefore, Jonas is definitely intelligent enough to know if the water is dirty or not. You’d know if the water is dirty if it’s foggy looking, or unnatural in color, like brown. You may argue that Jonas couldn’t see color at this time, for he had left the community and therefore lost the memories. However, this is false. On page 166, it says, “As the memory seeped from him into the newchild...” This means that Jonas had not yet left the community’s boundaries, and therefore still had the power to give and receive memories, as well as see color.
DeleteWhat was also brought up was that Jonas might be witnessing the memory again one last time before he dies. Well, by now he definitely left the boundaries of the community, as it says on page 174, “Dimly, from a nearly forgotten perception…” He didn’t remember this from the memory itself, but from his own memories, the ones he had made with The Giver. He and The Giver had discussed this memory after the vision had ended. Thus, he is remembering the discussion with The Giver, and the feeling of the discussion, and not the memory. Though all of your points are valid, there is simply not enough evidence to support the fact that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive.
I diagree because we learned in class when you dont eat are drink for a curtain amount of time you can start hallucinating So I think Jonas was hallucinating or just thinking about that memory
DeleteWell said, but Jonas had food that the Giver had given to him before he left. Even though he eventually ate all the food, it was within the last 24 hours it was all gone, and you can't hallucinate that badly in that short amount of time. And Jonas had no recollection of the memory. Unfortunately, I do not have my copy of The Giver available to me at the moment, but I can tell you that within the last 2-3 pages, Jonas says that he recalls something, like a feeling. The only reason he knows it's a memory is because he remembers receiving it and talking about it with The Giver. That memory was made by him, and so will always stay with him. So, Jonas couldn't have hallucinated because he would have had to go for several days to hallucinate that badly. He couldn't have been remembering the memory because the actual memory was lost to the community. In conclusion, the evidence adds up to show us that Jonas and Gabriel survived.
DeleteI think Jonas and gabriel survived because in the last few pages of the book it seemed like Jonas heard music and could see something in the last page or so he heard people talking and saw old people and that makes me think that he saw grandparents because in his community they had the house of the old but elsewhere doesn't have the house of the old. And people in his community apparently don't hear music but he did because he was somewhere else and the other people heard it,so it probably means that he is not within his community
ReplyDeleteI disagree, but you brought up a solid point. Jonas feels like he is losing consciousness, the sled can only ride on snow. Jonas' clothing is light, and made for warm weather. Hypothermia happens when the body gets too cold to function properly, A common symptom of hypothermia is exhaustion or dizziness
DeleteI disagree because the very last sentence says "But perhaps it was only an echo." I think he was remembering the memory of the music that the Giver gave to him earlier. He could have lost consciousness, and remember memories, because like you said he saw grandparents and that could have also been the older memory.
DeleteI disagree with this because Jonas was loosing consciousness, and I believe he died. There isn't a lot of evidence saying he survived, and even if he did see his grandparents house, the book says "perhaps it was only an echo"
DeleteI´m sorry but I disagree. Yes he said he heard music and sawed people in the distance he was still at the point where starving and freezing to death. When he was starting to freeze and starve to death he was starting to hallucinate causing him to lose his memory forgeting that he was going to die.
DeleteJonas could have easily gotten hypothermia and hallucinated the whole thing. Also the book said 'Across vast distances of space and time from where he once lived' means it was coming from his community which is impossible for him to hear without being dead.
DeleteThere are big signs of jonas dying, for example he was cold,dizzy and hungry which could mean hes just sick but when he saw the lights and heard the music as he was using the last of his strength to get up the hill is a big sign that he was entering heaven.
DeleteI disagree with you because in the book it said that it could've been an echo so he could have remembered the memories that the giver gave him and it could have been that.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel survived at the end of The Giver. Throughout the end of the book, Jonas and The Giver discuss him leaving the community. As a result, the memories he holds would return to the community giving them a sense of what life was like before the government-controlled every aspect. I believe that Jonas found an untouched civilization after riding down the hill in the sled. They were enjoying spending time together in their house while playing music. This is precisely how Jonas envisioned a perfect community and a cliche but believable ending to the book.
ReplyDeleteHey,I really don't think they survived because he was seeing things that weren't there.But there is more books about the giver and I know there is a book about jonas...
DeleteI will in fact proof you wrong in this response Emercon. If you really think out what was stated in the last page you can see that it puts things that relate to death but I can see where you are trying to go. It says things like there was only an echo and saying that he left space and time. Which puts my thinking in the way of death for Jonas and Gabriel.
DeleteIt certainly does sound like someone dying at the end. However the author even wrote that she thinks it was an optimistic ending. Does this prove he lives? No but I think Jonas found a real community like one of ours untouched by the government that rules Jonas's home.
DeleteI dont think that they survived. However I do think that they made it Elsewhere. For example on page 178 and 179 they talk about hearing music and feeling joy. This is what I think to be them dieing. And the music and the memories of love are what they go to when they are going Elsewhere. Like that place of peace when you die. Elsewhere is where you go when you die.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with u . I think that they survived becuase the giver is not true with his words in he book.
DeleteI'm confused what you mean by not true with his words. Any part of the book where you found that. Please explain.
DeleteYou bring up good points, but also I think elsewhere is a place you go when you're released, not dead, like an endless abyss. But, sice you do make the point that they didn't survive, I think you're partially right.
DeleteI am confused, I do also think that there is a tiny possibility that they made it to elsewhere, but I think they died. Also you wrote I don't think they survived in the link that says I think they survived.
DeleteI think elsewhere begins after the hill. Evidence of Jonas dying comes before he finished sliding down. Then again, the whole vision of Elsewhere could have just been a figment of Jonas's imagination.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel survived because he didn’t starve. He went on for a few days without food, but not long enough to die from it. At the end of the book, he was experiencing a memory he had before. It also said he used more of his courage to finish the long, hard journey. Also nothing went wrong with his plan, besides the food problem, and the sled went fine.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think they died because his body is used to eating and if he goes a while without food his body is going to malfunction. I believe he died of starvation because when his body realized he wasn't getting any food if shut down and he passed out and soon later died.
DeleteI disagree because Jonas was starving and you can't live without food. Another reason is that when Jonas heard people singing that could be the memories leaving him.
DeleteI disagree I think that he was hallucinating from starving or from the cold
DeleteIf you have water than the average human can survive without food for about 25 days, but in Jonas's freezing and harsh conditions, plus the water he was drinking was frigid cold since it was winter. Jonas would not have made it. Those conditions are the perfect for someone to freeze to death. Also how in the world is the sled still there after a long long long long time? It was in his memory when he saw the sled. In the book they would always say before me back, and back, and back. The sled would have decomposed by then or someone would have taken it home. I think he hallucinated the whole thing and died.
DeleteI disagree. I think he didn't survive because there is only so much the human body can take. Jonas wasn't a very strong kid and was never trained for these conditions. When he reached the bottom his brain had the courage to go on but I believe his body did not. I think he hallucinated being with people or hearing singing or music.
DeleteI disagree because there was no other stable source of food and even for Gabriel because he is a baby he needs food even more badly than Jonas not only that if he was experiencing a memory then it could've been from him hallucination and him nearing death.
DeleteHow could have he know about a sled placed on top of a hill. It would have rusted by then. And also he could have starved because he was not eating enough for the energy he was using.
DeleteI believe that Jonas and Gabrial both survived their trip to Elsewhere. In the last few pages of the book, there is a couple of things at the end of the book that proves my point. If Jonas was truly hallucinating, then why would he feel the “wind whipping at his face”. Another thing: I think that the sled is real because he could feel his “hands numbly reaching for the ropes”. I think that the ropes are real. If they were fake he wouldn’t have had to struggle. If it was a hallucination, he would have imagined himself just reaching for it. The first memory he had was of himself going down the hill in a sled. And in the memory, he did not have to fumble for the ropes in that memory. So he wasn’t living that old memory.
ReplyDeleteI believe he was hallucinating he went a couple days without food and the body was starting to deceive jonas.
DeleteYou make a good point but why would a sled randomly be on the top of a frigid mountain. Also, if he was hallucinating like I think he was he probably would have still felt the wind on his face. Like you said, the first memory he got was on a sled. So, I believe that he was hallucinating that memory and that he died.
DeleteYou have a good point, but I think that he gets up the hill and then dies. You say that he could feel it and that he fumbles for the ropes but he could feel the sled before, too. It says on page 81 that he "cut through the frigid air" Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled.
DeleteHi, You all have made very compelling points! I still think that he survived though. On the last page of the book it says " He thought he heard music coming from behind him. but perhaps it was only an echo." It says that the music is coming from behind him. So I think that he was hearing his community singing after they found out about the past. You guys also mentioned that the happy memories at the end was him dying. I think that it is the burden of all of the memories the Giver gave him, getting released and he is feeling elated from this.
DeleteI think gabe and jonas survived because the community they found could be a community full of singers and are welcoming them. also the singing could not have happened at all and jonas could have imagined it. i don't think they could die because if jonas died there wouldn't be a book because who would be telling the story because we know the giver was going to die because he was growing old. so the only possible way to have someone is narrating the story is the by jonas is reading it to someone like his kids or gabe. also i looked it up and in book 4 of the giver the article said that gabe and jonas were still alive {sorry} .
ReplyDeleteOk first of all we are talking about this book not book 4. And second it says it is a "echo" witch is probably hallucination because he hasn't got food in a while. So he probably died of starvation .(does not say in book)
DeleteIt's kind of hard to follow your reasoning. We don't know that the Giver is going to die, and that doesn't support your answer. The book is in 3rd person narration, so it doesn't have anything to do with Jonas reading or narrating the book. The book describes that Jonas heard echos from space and time. This is probably his imagination, signifying that he will die soon.
DeleteI disagree because at the end he was using his last strength and memories. But when he saw the red sled at the end he can't magically create a sled and house so he was just hallucinating about his first memories also it said in the book that it could have been just an echo.
DeleteI disagree. The point you are trying to make is not actually from the first book. Your evidence is not from the text. Your argument is essentially a google search result.
DeleteI believe Jonas and Gabriel survived their journey into the unknown. At the end of the book, Jonas hears music and sees lights. From the description, Jonas saw the lights look like they are candles inside a window. What Jonas saw was so detailed, that it is hard to believe he died. He didn’t have any memory of candles. He also hasn’t heard singing in real life, just from his memories. He also had Gabriel with him still. He could feel Gabriel. If Jonas was dead he wouldn’t feel Gabriel.
ReplyDeleteI think that the music and lights and what he saw was a dream because when he was first given memories he saw snow. every thing he saw were memorise.
DeleteAt the end of the book it says that he also heard music back in the community but that wouldn't have been physically possible. Also, I believe that he was hallucinating in detail because he had so many memories so it would be easy to believe that his brain hallucinated all of that.
Deletei disagree because he was starving and he was becoming so weak that it would make sense that he died, The fact that he was starving and he was becoming weak and that he saw lights and heard music which could be a sign of him entering heaven. Those are all big signs of him dying.
DeleteFirst of all, you didn't provide a source for your claims. Second of all, he did have memories of lights and candles. I have the movie as my source. You can see that when Jonas gets to the bottom of the hill, he sees a house with festive lights and decorations. What you said was untrue to an extent, but I too am beginning to believe that Jonas survived. Maybe the creator of the memories planned an escape route using the memories. How else did the sled get there? I don't know, just felt I should debunk your unsupported claims.
DeleteI think they did survive because the story keeps on going. There is a 2nd book. They hear going down the hill. Think they survived because they were getting warm too.
ReplyDeleteThe other books are companion books. They are not based off of Jonas and his story, it merely follows the story of other community members. Also, when you die you feel warm. People who have nearly died explain that death isn't allows cold and painful. Jonas can't miraculously become warm after casting cold memories upon himself and in the midst of a snow storm. A man in specific from Chicago was shot with a shotgun and described his experience. He said that he felt "warm" and "sleepy". Maybe Jonas felt this sensation as well? Jonas said he was struggling to stay conscious. When you are tired, you also struggle to stay conscious. The combination of this and the fact he felt warm (according to you although you cited no page number) makes me believe that he was dying.
DeleteThere is no detail from the book we are reading to support this answer. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean it has anything to do with Jonas and Gabriel. In addition, most of these things that Jonas is feeling are probably hallucinations.
DeleteJust because there is a second book doesn't mean that they survived. If anything it means that they didn't survive because its about a different person.
DeleteThere being a second book is not proper evidence that Jonas and Gabriel survived. Details from the first book is required to be a proper argument.
DeleteI disagree. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that they survived the second book could be about the rest of the community and how they reacted to that. Also when he saw the sled, the lights and the house he was hallucinating because the only way he could have saw that stuff was if he magically created it or was hallucinating. Also when he saw the sled, lights and house he did not eat or drink a lot and he was really cold so he was probably hallucinating.
ReplyDeleteObjection. Just because there is a second book doesn't mean that the same protagonist is in it. The second book may have the same concept but different characters. Or it could be an entirely different book. So just because there are two books is not a solid statement.
Delete-OF
DeleteI totally disagree. The evidence is supposed to be in the text. The argument that there are more books does not work. The next book is based on a totally different character.
ReplyDelete