I think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. In the book as they were climbing the mountain;everything was fogged and very unclear I think they passed out in the snow and the rest of the story was just a dream; from while they were dead.
I do see where your coming from and that could definitely had happened. At the end of the book there was a lot of detail and why would he have heard music if he was dead? Everything could've been unclear at the end because jonas was starving and close to death but was still alive.
Like I said in my response he heard music while he was dead. The music was just a hallucination and same with the sled. Since he was so hungry and cold he was seeing things. Since his mind was so set on seeing the sled and hearing the music; by the time he passed out and died. The thoughts were still in his head. while he was dead he was dreaming of getting into the village. It doesn't make sense for there to be a sled on top of the mountain that leads him right into a village.
I think that Jonas died at the end of the book. My reasoning is that the book abruptly stops. This happens as soon as Jonas hears music, which I think is a hallucination, along with the red sled he sees. I think he feels as though he's done his job and can go to sleep (die) peacefully now. I do think that Gabe survived and goes on to live a good life outside of the community.
I can understand where you're coming from but I disagree. I believe that both Jonas and Gabriel survived. They do end up going down the hill with the sled. I think he would've started to lose consciousness and hallucination like you said, but I think that he had courage to keep going knowing he would find elsewhere.
Danielle, where do you think he went? Because he went up the hill with gabriel hungry, and hurt mental and physically. I dont think even if he had the motavation to keep going he physically couldnt.
I think Jonas and Gabe died. In the book it said, "Jonas did not care about himself anymore". But if he cared only for Gabe then they were both doomed. Gabe is a baby and can not take care of himself so he would need Jonas to take care of him. If Jonas did not take care of himself he would die and therefore Gabe would die. At the end of the story it was winter, snowing and freezing. Jonas did not have much warmth and could have easily gotten hypothermia. In result he could have a lot of hallucinations. Jonas could have completely hallucinated the sled. At the end "Jonas heard music". That could have been Jonas dying so he heard some music.
I disagre because i think Jonas and Gabe survive. I think they survive because it is to much detal for them to have died and it was a happy ending and i think they did suvive.
You have literally no proof that it was a happy ending. Lois Lowry could have easily added all the detail to give the book some closer. Also, like I said before, the whole thing could have been an hallucination. One part of the book clearly supports that. The book said, 'Over vast distances of space and time, he thought he heard music.' That is impossible for the human ear to hear that far away therefore it supports that he was hallucinating the whole thing and is actually lying somewhere half dead till he dies.
Although it is about the most depressing ending to this book, there are too many death metaphors for jonas too have survived. "he felt it, elsewhere" the book reads at pg 74, clearly referring to the Elsewhere people in the community are "released" (later learned to be killed) too. "behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left" on the last page, is him dying and leaving the earth, because the community is not distances of space and time away. -Emmelyn because the blog called me sad
I think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive at the end of "The Giver" because of the clues the book gives us. On the last page, it says, "they were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby." This shows that there was something on the other side "expecting" them. It may have been death. Also, the last line "But perhaps it was only an echo", after hearing music. This may of meant that he was hearing it as he dies.
I think Jonas and Gabriel did survive. I think this because they where using the memorys to keep them worm. Also the people where proble waiting for him because then new that he left his comunity. This is why I think that he and Gabriel survived and did not die.
I disagree with you Ben, because just because the book doesn't say anything about his death, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The book also didn't say he survived, which means it could go both ways without any direct evidence.
I also disagree with you, nina, because the cause of their death probably wasn't the fact that they got too cold, it was most likely because they crossed the border of the community. Also, the people waiting for them may have not been actual people, they could have been death itself.
I disagree with that, I think he heard people singing because he was finally in elsewhere and free from the community. I can see your point about him maybe hallucinating but I think everything was foggy because he was starving and on the verge of death but still alive.
i think jonas and gabriel did not survive. in the book jonas and gabriel are climbing a hill and when they got to the top jonas could hear the music of the town that the giver was talking about. i thing jonas was hallucinating in this situation and i think he died right there on that hill.
I believe Jonas and gabriel did not survive. Because I think he was hallucinating the memory of him on the sled and the memory of chrismas. I think this because on page 178-179, It says "Jonas felt himself loseing consciousness" I think he was loseing consciousness because he didnt eat a lot. Because he had to take little from the commuity and he also had share with gabriel, and i also think they didnt make it because it says in the book "across vast distances of space and time ,from the place he had left he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo"
I dissagree because I think that they were alive when they saw the house and the family I think that because he heard them from outside of the house not inside of the house
I disagree with it specifically says in the book if you want to go look that 'from the place he had left he thought he heard music to.' It says 'from the place he had left' which means the community. It also says in the book that he kind of regretted leaving the community because he thought if I was still at the community I would not be starving right now and I would also be warm. The passage that Mr. Kavanaugh read us about hallucination said that you will start hallucinating when you and starved and when your physical health sucks, and that affects your mental health which causes you to hallucinate.
At the end of the book I believe that Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive. At the end of the book I think they were hallucinating, because of their starvation and exhaustion. Also as the final sentence it states on page 179, "he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was just an echo". That suggests what he heard wasn't real. After he heard that they died of starvation and exhaustion.
he would not have died of exhaustion. He and Gabe had been sleeping you can't be exhausted if you've been sleeping. As for the starvation they could have just been hungry on page 173 it says almost impossible to get food not impossible. but there is a good argument against my reason against starvation about him giving most of the food to gabe. but i can counter that by saying it you can last a month without food.
But, even if you sleep, your system can still shut down from not getting enough nutrients, maybe he was struggling with mental fatigue, or he could be overworking himself, in which he would still be fatigued after sleep. Also, at 13 you are growing a lot, so he would need more food. The month without food depends on the person, and since Jonas is working harder physically then he ever has before, it's not a stretch he needs a lot more food.
Replying to T Walnut I guess. For one I should have clarified that by exhaustion I meant strain on the body kind of exhaustion. Also when you referenced pg 173 that was a while before the time we are referring to. A lot can change and where he is now he can't even get any food because of the climate. You can last a month without food, but you must take into consideration that he was also traveling in harsh weather without proper clothes. That would effect how long he would survive.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. I think this because on page 178 it said that "Jonas felt himself losing consciousness" which leads me to believe they were hallucinating what happened, and they eventually died.
They could have lost consciousness from being very hungry or cold and could not have hallucinated the music because he doesn´t know what it sounds like.
I think Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive because he was starving. It has been proven to have hallucinations when you are starving. For example, he could hear people singing. I think he was hallucinating and the people singing wasn't actually there. Also, he found a sled and rode down a hill. This makes me believe he was hallucinating because there would be no reason for a sled to be in the middle of nowhere. He also saw houses with lights in the middle of nowhere. Due to these reasons, I think that Jonas and Gabriel died of starvation.
If he had hallucinations that means he could still be alive, and he could have actually seen the lights from a house. In the book it says, "He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding, and all at once he could see lights, and he recognized them now." In that line it says how Jonas was forcing his eyes open meaning he was still alive.
I think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. This is my prediction because I think Jonas lost all of his memories which made him weak. After he became weak he started to lose consciousness. On page 178, it said that Jonas used his final strength. I believe that Jonas collapsed on the top of the hill, and started hallucinating for the rest of the book.
I don't think that is true because Jonas had not collapsed yet. He was very tired and getting weaker, but had not yet collapsed. I say this cause I think he kept going and found a town.
I see where you are coming from, And I am assuming that he did collapse even though it didnt say it in the book. But I think he was losing consciousness because of starvation and collapsed after he gave his final strength on top of the hill, and hallucinated the rest of the book, before the sled event.
I believe that Jonas and Gaberiel didn’t survive because the book makes a reference to “seeing the light” in the final pages “He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding and all at once he could see the lights”. Jonas also describes losing consciousness as he barrels down the hill “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright”. A common symptom of hypothermia is feeling exhausted or tired.
I think that he survived. The see the lights part means that he saw the lights of the town. Also if he was hallucinating he wouldn't be able to actually use the sled because it would be a hallucination. He could of lost consciousness, but he is still sledding down the hill into the lights of elsewhere, and you'd still be sledding down the hill into elsewhere even if you had lost consciousness.
I think they died because they had ran out of food and also had fell and they are tired. There easly going to die because they have no food,water and they are all scratched up and there realy cold becasue they had to go through water and its cold there freezing but they tried to keep warm.
When Jonas and Gabe's sled ride ended he was very close to a house that could have had a fire for warmth, food, and water for the homeowners survival so then Jonas could use those supplies.
what if the town is a mere hallucination from his memories? the town and the sled are the same one from his memory, and his memories come from a very long time ago. I don't think any town would survive that long.
I think that jonas and gabe did not survive because he didn't eat food for a while because he was hallucinating . sense he hasn't had food in a while he will start to slowly die off. He is also sitting in the snow at the bottom of the hill and he could have got hypothermia . i think that if i was in that position i would die because there is no help.
I think they did survive because in the book it was saying how he forced his eyes to stay open, meaning he was still alive, and how he saw the lights. Therefore I think that he wasn't hallucinating and that they are still alive.
I think Jonah and Gabriel didn’t survive because in the book it says “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness”. Which could lead him to dying. I don’t think he died straight away, more like he lost consciousness and then slowly started to die. I also think he died because the book states that “ he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” This could mean as he slowly faded away, he heard music far in the distance and then died.
I disagree because, in the book it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” This was the very end of the book so it means that he was still outside of his community and alive
I believe Jonas and Gabriel survive because, The Giver mentioned something called "seeing beyond" but the giver also mentions "hearing beyond". I think Jonas was hearing the music from the community that he left. and he has to be alive to have the powers of the receiver (hearing and seeing beyond, also having the memories of the past)
I think jonas and gabriel are still dead, i think they are dead because at the end it said ¨jonas is losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright¨. Another reason I think Jonas is dead because he was seeing a sled. But here's the thing: I don't know if Gabriel is dead because at the end they didn't say anything about Gabriel I remember...
How could they not have done what the giver had said in the book? The giver said to escape and reach elsewhere, and I believe they did, Jonas had heard music, meaning he has reached elsewhere, he may have been on the verge of dying but I doubt that he actually died.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because at the end of The Giver, it says, “Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place had had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” One reason I think that was because they were about to be killed without the starving, because Jonas and Gabriel didn’t eat in a while. And another reason (more of a theory) is that it could be that the memories Jonas’ got is more of a hallucination and instead of riding a sled they just slide down to their deaths.
I agree that the sled could have been a hallucination, but I don't understand why the line you took out of the book would prove that Jonas and Gabriel died. If an echo of music was coming from were he had come from (the community), then it is more likely that he stumbled upon another community if he heard music again. It says in the line you took from the book, "across vast distances of space and time," would mean that the memory could have been a memory (not a memory like the sled). If he remembered haring music it could be connected.
I think Jonas did not survive because the book stated that Jonas and Gabriel had been seeing and hearing things, but I believe that It was a hallucination before death. The Book stated that they only heard an echo which can mean it was their last breath. The hallucinations could have been the memories.
I don't think it would be humanly possible for him to just make a sled with his mind and he could be seeing things before death because he was freezing cold and had no where to be but the cold.
I think Jonas and Gabriel died because at the end of the book it was saying that he was hearing music then it said “but perhaps it was just an echo”. That makes me think he died because then it just ends. I am also kind of hoping they died because it would be better for them to die than go through as much pain as they would if they were to survive.
I think Jones and Gabriel didn’t survive, and the sled represented their deaths. I think that the Christmas lights and the singing were memories given to Jonas that he is recalling because that’s how he wished his life was. It’s like how people often say that they “saw their life flash before their eyes”, and this is probably what Jonas says he sees on his way down the hill, which as I said before represents his and Gabriel’s passing.
I think you presented your opinion/case very well. To start assuming the characters in the giver live in the same world as us you can not hear music while dreaming. Also they what happened to them has to be real because Gabriel would have been on the medicine that gets rid of dreams. Lois Lowry the author of the book quoted in the end of the book that she believed it was an optimistic ending. Even if Jonas succeeded in giving the memories back I believe the only optimistic ending would be Jonas's survival. How could an innocent baby dying on a sled be optimistic?
I think they die because they don’t have much food anymore, and they are both freezing and tired. They don’t have any idea on where they are either. I think if they do end up surviving, it will be either because they found a town or village, or one of the search planes found them. They most likely won’t be found by the search planes, because they haven’t seen them in a while. He got his hopes up, but then after sledding he realized he might have been hallucinating. He might have a few scraps left of food, but almost no energy or shelter, and not much food, if any. It also would take too long to turn back, they wouldn’t make it. I don’t think they will survive.
I disagree because if he was dying would he have heard music maybe but in the end of the book it said he saw the grandparents and lights an all those things. I agree that they did not have much food and not much energy but I still think they survived but I could be wrong.
You make a good point but I think they could have survived because his eyes were still open and he could still feel the cold and stuff meaning he was alive.
I think they did not survive because Jonas said he could see lights. I feel like he went into the light, and when he fell on the snow he hit his head and the rest was just his imagination playing tricks on him. I feel he is piecing together the last of his memories and is just imagining the sled and him going down the hill. It also says at the end “or perhaps it was only an echo.” I feel this shows that he is dead and is only imagining the music.
The "going into the light" is not actually true, it's a local belief. You can not ask a dead person if they walked into light. He said he saw lights (not that bright white light that people rumer you see while dying) like christmas lights. That generally means sentient life is living nearby.
I feel even if he did see christmas lights and he wasn't hallucinating why was there a sled place on top of a hill for him to sled down. I feel the sled was just his last memory and he is just thinking about the memory before he dies.
¨But Jonas twisted his ankle, his knees were scraped and raw, blood seeping through his trousers.¨ After this point in the book, I think that Jonas lost so much blood that he was hallucinating everything, and when he got to elsewhere he died when he was on the sled.
Yes, he did hurt his ankle, but as he kept traveling it got better. Also if his ankle got hurt around the start of his journey then how would he have gotten so far.
I think Jonas and Gabriel died because when you leave the community you are done and you don't come back. It's like when one of the twins left the community Jonas was crying and I don't think he would be crying if he was not dead. On the last page you hear him say he heard people singing but perhaps it was only an echo that probably means he heard something an echo for the last time.
I see all of you points, but I disagree. For your first point, it states on page 173, "So there had not really been a choice." This is referring to the fact that Jonas does not have the choice to stay in the community, whether it's about Gabriel, or the people in the community. Also, when the twin was released, he did not go to Elsewhere. They killed him. It says this on page 150. "He killed it!" This is why I think Jonas and Gabriel survived.
Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. There is a multitude of reasons why this is true. For example, when Jonas and Gabriel were about to slide down the mountain, there was a sled just waiting there. How can a sled just exist without someone putting it there beforehand? To show this, one line from page 178 says, “Jonas found the sled that was waiting for them at the top of the hill.” This might mean that Jonas was just imagining this in his mind. Additionally, the last line from the story says, “he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” When someone is experiencing these things in real life, things should be clear. This line makes much more sense when someone is imagining these things in their head. To conclude, Jonas was probably dreaming the whole time in the cold snow. Because of the subzero temperatures, his body must have shut down. Before he died, he must have experienced this scene in his imagination. This is why he and Gabriel must have died.
The ending to the giver was very ambiguous and it left everyone with one question, did Gabriel and Jonas survive? Everyone has their own opinions, but I believe that they did not make it out alive, and I have evidence to back it up. For starters let's talk about the sled that was randomly on a frigid and snowy mountain. It makes no sense that there would just magically be a sled there, which is why I believe he was hallucinating due to his hunger and the frigid weather. In the book on page 178 it says “Using his final strength, and a special knowledge that was deep inside him, Jonas found the sled that was waiting for him at the top of the hill.” Another piece of evidence is that when Jonas thought he heard music coming from the community I believe that he was hearing things, because it would be physically impossible to actually hear that.
I am sure you know, but you are incorrect. I would like to critique parts of your argument. It does make sense that the sled was magnificently placed upon that, as you described it, "frigid and snowy" mountain. Think, who created the memories? Who planned Jonas' escape? The Giver. Somebody, I don't know who but somebody who partook in the creation of memory envisioned an oppressive ruling class and decided to plan an escape route. The creator of memory placed that sled upon that "frigid and snowy" mountain, it is not by divine nature that Jonas found the sled, a mortal, in our case a past member of the community led him there. The Giver knew about the escape route as well. Why would he send a naive "12 year old" out into dangerous lands holding fruitless and fatal outcomes? The answer: he wouldn't. The Giver is the enlightened one, not some ignorant sheep that bows down before its rulers. I am certain of this, everything fell into place far too well. The simplest way I can describe Jonas' escape is playing Tetris, but the blocks auto lock into a suitable position. Practically having the game play itself as you stress the outcome.
Gabriel and Jonas did die because they were in the freezing snow with no heat and no food. At the end of the book, Jonas hears Christmas music and sees people coming over to him. He also sees a house with a Christmas tree. But then at the end of the story, it said “but perhaps it was only an echo.” So what I think happened is Jonas died in the snow from the freezing cold and starvation. And then goes and thinks about the sled memories he has. Then after that, he thinks of the Christmas memory and then the music from that Christmas memory.
The "perhaps it was only an echo" Is actually referring to more music he heard that sounded like it was coming from back home. Since there is no music in Jonas's community this must have been from another house or the same house. I believe that Jonas survived and made it to the house. He said he was forcing his eyes open which I feel if he was already dead and dreaming he would not have been cold and not have been forcing his eyes open. To add onto that if he was dead and dreaming he wouldn't be able to hear music.
Yes I might have assumed that the music was christmas music. Only because of the christmas tree in the window and the snow on the ground guessing on what month it was in the book. But even though it was people singing instead of christmas music; it still doesn't change the fact that they could just be dead in the snow; dreaming.
Nothing made sense after he fell into the snow it didn’t sound real. It sounded almost like a dream. It said ¨his spirits and strength lifted with the momentary warmth and he stood¨. And why would there be a sled at the top of the hill waiting for him? Everything that happened after he fell he had memories of all of it.
I think Jonas and Gabriel died because in the book it says “Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” Witch I feel is him entering the great beyond.
I think that Gabriel and Jonas did not survive in the giver because when the giver ends Jonas says that he heard music and saw lights then the book ends but what I think happened was he was either hallucinating from starvation and tiredness or actually saw people but still died from starvation, freezing, and tiredness
I'm sure you watched the movie and i'm sure this comment was created and posted before our viewing of the movie. I'll say this, you, me, and everyone else on this forum is incorrect. Jonas and Gabriel survived and safely made it to Elsewhere. Movies have a special way of depicting hallucinations and schizophrenic sights. We didn't see any of these depictions in the final minutes of the movie. Also, Jonas' community saw the effects of his departure, something we didn't read in the book. I shall conclude with this, you had good reasoning and obvious reasoning, but the movie debunks your claim...and my claims.
I think that both Jonas and Gabriel died because even if he saw a sled and heard people singing it could always be a hallucination because when you are deprived from food and water you start hearing and seeing things that aren’t true. One example from the story that he was starved to death is ‘Then, he had a choice, he had made the wrong one: the choice to leave. And now he was starving’ on page 173. The music he had heard was from the community because in the book it says ‘ behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too.’
I think they did not survive because in the end of the book it says “but perhaps it was only an echo”. That made me think that he was slowly dying and he heard sounds before he died. It also says “behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music” which makes be think before he died he had some flashbacks from his journey.
I think they died because firstly they were lacking food and it also says in the book that using the last strength which was within him. In the book, it says that he started losing consciousness. A certain of love and join was waiting for, this was the told in the book I think that this joy and love is death, death is waiting for both Jonas and Gabriell. He heard music but perhaps it could be an echo. It also says that he used his final strength to find the sled which I think was probably his hallucination I think as he used up his last bit of energy he started hallucinating. This is why I think that they died
“And realized with heartbreak how cold and weak Gabe had become.” Gabriel is clearly very cold and would not be able to make it up to the top of the mountain. As Jonas and Gabe freeze to death Jonas tries desperately to stay alive and hypothermia sets in. in the book it says that Jonas is feeling colder and numb and his memory fades as he passes along with Gabe to what I assume is the afterlife. “He heard people singing.” could be angles caring them away.
Any healthy human can survive for just so long without food, water, or shelter. In The Giver, Jonas and Gabriel take the life threatening journey in an attempt to save Gabriel from death. As Jonas was sliding down the treacherous hill (in a sled that came out of NOWHERE, why he is most likely imagining this in his head, and having hallucinations before he dies), he felt like he was losing conscience, which are two reasons why I believe he died. As he slid down the hill, he said the “people were waiting for him, and the baby”, even though the people wouldn’t have a clue who Jonas is. I think that Jonas, and Gabriel die at the top of the hill, but start to hallucinate about arriving at “Elsewhere”.
I disagree with the hallucination theory because on page On page 178 it states "He forced his eyes open as they went downwards, downward, sliding, and at once he could see lights and he recognized them now. He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were the red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees." I think that is way to detailed to be a hallucination because most of the time when people hallucinate it does not have that kind of detail. Because of that I believe Jonas survived and made it to Elsewhere.
I disagree with this. Yes, the sled did come out of nowhere, but if it was a hallucination how did he use the sled? We know they didn't die at the top of the hill because for one, he was still forcing himself to stay up straight, so he can still use his body.
I disagree with Stephen C and Person because right before he "forced his eyes open", Jonas said "he felt as if he was losing consciousness", and also in the first memory that The Giver gave to him, was EXACTLY like this one, but only with Gabriel for a short bit of time. At first, it seemed like Gabriel WAS still riding on the sled, but then the book abruptly ends with no context of Gabriel was still "riding" the sled or not. Jonas might have died, while he was riding the sled, and his mind might have just relieved his first memory, and Gabriel might have died shortly after. Also, it is highly unrealistic that two children can survive multiple hours in freezing temperature, without a coat or pants, and not die of hypothermia.
I think Jonas and Gabriel don’t survive because in the book on page 177 it says “I remember this place, Gabe.” Jonas remembers it because it was the memory of the people during christmas. In the book it also says “And it was true. But it was not a grasping of a thin and burdensome recollection; this was different. This was something he could keep. It was a memory of his own.” In that last sentence it says that this was Jonas' memory which could be the one of christmas that the Giver gave him. Jonas really liked that memory because it reminded him of love and family. Jonas could have hallucinated that memory before he died.
I disagree with you, because in the book nothing really happened that is clear that Jonas and Gabriel died. It says that they were sledding down the hill and when they were sledding down the hill Jonas heard music. They say the house that Jonas remembered from his memory. It sounds like they reached the place were there journey ended. This is why I think that they didn't die they just reached there point were they had finished,and what they had been traveling for.
Emma, i disagree with you. I dont think the book had to say striaght up "they died" I think jonas remembered some of his memories from hallucination and when he stopped thinking about them thats when it said "but perhaps it was only just an echo" bringing him back to some kind of reality and so they never found civilzation and died of climate, hunger ect
Emma, I disagree with you because in the book it says "the place that he had always felt was waiting, the Elsewhere that held their future and their past." Early in the book it said that the people in the community believed that when people died they went to Elsewhere so that could mean that's where Jonas and Gabriel were. That also explains why in the book it says it felt like the place that they felt was always waiting. This also relates to why he remembered the memory because it says how the place held their past and the memories were Jonas past.
I think Jonas died because Jonas said he heard music in the distance that seemed like it was getting closer, in heaven angels play instruments. He also said that he saw lights and when people die they usually see light and go into the light leading them to heaven. “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness” he said on page 179, maybe him losing his consciousness had something to do with him passing away due to freezing.
but it said in the book that he was losing all of his strength which could mean that his body was slowly giving up, when he saw the light and heard the music that was a big sign of him entering heaven.
I disagree with you because if he was hallucinations. but he had described what the house looked like and that is a lot of details for someone who is hallucinating
Jonas and Gabriel obviously didn’t survive. He lost all his strength riding a bike that was too big for him through ice, snow and blazing heat. At the end it was too much and his body gave out. You can tell that he died because in the book it distinctly shows that Jonas heard angels. “Suddenly he was aware for certainty and joy that below, ahead, they were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby. For the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music.” I think that this book might be ending where Jonas dies and gets sent to heaven to show he did a good thing, even though he was unsure.
Yes he could have been hallucinating, but a lot of people hallucinate before they die. The is lots of concrete evidence to support that he died. Though the fact the he could have been hallucinating and then woke up is a good theory you gave no evidence to back up your theory ad I think that is because there is none. There is lots of evidence to support my theory, when people are dying saying I can see the light is an obvious giveaway that there dying. Also hearing voices is something that happens when people die in a lot of books. Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled. All of this points to him dying. He had a long journey and his body gave out. He had broken bones, was riding a bike that was too big, was starving, drinking dirty water and taking care of a baby. There is no way he could have survived. He used all his energy to get up the hill and when he got to the top it was just too much for him.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because of many different reasons in the Giver. One of them being once he got on the sled he felt himself losing consciousness. I also think that there is no way Gabriel lived because he’s a baby and was in very cold temperatures for a long time with only a little amount of clothes.
I think that Jonas and Gabe died because in the book it said that he was losing consciousness and using his last strength to get on the sled. Another reason that Jonas and Gabe died was because he saw the red sled and the red sled is from the first memory that Jonas had. So he was hallucinating because he had no strength left in his body and he would not be able to make a red sled magically appear and use it. Also when he got to the bottom of the hill he saw a house and heard people singing just like in his memory.
I think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive due to the fact that. Near the end they stated they both had heard voices and music , but a few sentences later he said it may have been an echo. To me this means most likely he’s hallucinating. Most people say at the end of your rope you see your life flash before your eyes; and nine times out of ten your dead. Also this means he didn’t see anyone run to him or try to help him.
I truly believe that Jonas and Gabriel were doomed and did not safely make it Elsewhere. Now, before I delve into the several reasons as to why Jonas and Gabriel perished, I shall remind you of the meer mortality of the human body. Considering that Elsewhere is a real place, and not a different realm. On page number 178 Lois Lowry writes, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness”. I have two notes, the 3rd person narrative and the obvious loss of consciousness. The entirety of The Giver is narrated in 3rd person. So, reading the previous sentence, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness” in a 3rd person narrative shouldn’t be shocking in the slightest. However, I have a theory. What if the final days of Jonas and Gabriel were so tormenting and mentally damaging that Jonas was relieved to find himself at the hands of death?
Jonas and Gabriel did die. All of Jonas’s happy memories came flooding back to him at the end of the book, and then he heard music in the distance. This is what would happen right before he dies. This wouldn’t just happen out of the blue. The only possible solution is that before they die, and before they enter heaven, they experience all the good memories in their life. And if he didn’t die, why wouldn’t he see everyone else’s happy memories because shouldn’t that place have everyone’s memories? He only saw his memories.
In your paragraph, you say that all of the memories he gets was because of him dying. I think that it was the burden of all the memories he had from the Giver. It was the memories getting released. I think he felt happy because he new that he had taken a long journey, and it payed off!
I believe that Jonas did not survive because on pg 177 it says, “He was not warmer; if anything he felt more numb and cold.” That supports my theory that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. Maybe because of hunger, hullusation, or hypothermia. It also stated on pg 179, last sentence of the book, “maybe it was all just an echo.” Some people who thought he survived would probably use the couple paragraphs before that where we thought he found civilization. But I believe that he was only hallucinating and didn’t ever survive.
I believe that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. I believe this because on page 178 the book states “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness.” Unless he’s on amnesia or some drug that is not normal. When people are about to die they also feel this feeling. For more evidence page 179 “behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” If it wasn’t for the last sentence of the book I maybe would’ve believed he was alive, but now it almost seems like the author is foreshadowing for another book that doesn’t exist. Therefore Jack and Jonas did not survive.
I disagree with you because people can lose consciousness if they are very hungry or cold and he doesn´t know what music sounds like so he wouldn´t have been able to hallucinate it.
I think they died because he hears music and almost to the end of the book he was really weak and he fell in the snow and he was really cold. He was also really hungry.
I believe that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive the journey. One reason that I don’t believe that they survived the journey is that first of all, it was really cold, and they didn’t have blankets, and in the book on pg 174 it says “How cold, and weak Gabriel has become.” This shows that they were in terrible conditions and they could have died due to hypothermia on the way. Not only that, they were really short on food and had finished. On pg 172 it said that they were starving, without food they won’t really make a long way especially Gabriel who is a baby. Not only that, Jonas had been badly injured on his foot and he was physically unfit. Earlier he had sprained his foot and he has to walk a long way and carry Gabriel which will be terrible for his foot.
I think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because they heard music and I think that was an indicator that they died and were never found. Page 179 at the end for the first time he heard something that knew to be music. They starved or died from bears,wolves or bee’s. I think they found Gabriel and released him and he died from the lethal injection. They could have found Jonas but we will never know. They could have been poisoned by berries or something else.
I think Gabriel and Jonas croaked at the end of the giver. I think they died because on page 178 Jonas said” Jonas found the sled. My theory is that due to lack of food and the taxing journey he started to hallucinate. And shortly after he kicked the bucket.Gabriel would certainly die without Jonas because of the frigid conditions and a lack of food. In conclusion Jonas and Gabriel would have most likely died on the journey.
I agree with you for some things. First, I agree that he might have started to hallucinate from lack of food, shelter, and heat. But if you think about it, Jonas had a very strong will to try and get out of the communities boundaries. When he did he found the sled, started hearing things, and was overly happy. On the last page of the book it says, "Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he hear music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." I think that was him hearing the community feeling the past. The book also mentions about how they also have the capacity to hear beyond as well. I think that that is how he heard this.
Also I have a theory. If the giver can give memories about the past, as vividly as can be. Would it be that absurd to give memory about the future. I know that in the first sled memory he was happy, but timelines can change things. Little or small, they could be emotions too. Also When he was reliving the memory at first, he did not know that he would be carrying Gabe, or starving. So he enjoyed it.
As for him feeling overly happy, I think that was him starting to hallucinate. or he was elated that he finally had done it and since he was tired, emotions probably flooded him.
Also one more thing. If he died from hallucinations, how would he still be able to notice himself losing consciousness at the end of the sled ride. "Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being he willed himself to upright atop the sled, clutching Gabriel, keeping him safe."
I agree with some of your thoughts. I cannot dispute that Jonas had a strong will to make it to elsewhere but will cannot change everything. When discussing the undisputed facts there is little evidence to claim that Jonas survived. I believe that the sled memory and his happiness was just a hallucination. While he did realize himself losing consciousness, throughout the book we have learned memories can feel as real as you actually experiencing events in real life. And for the your theory an argument can be made for the giver to be able send memories of the future but it was never confirmed. Since not much known about how the giver's power there is much left to be interpreted. But when talking about facts evidence points to Jonas and Gabe dying during the journey to elsewhere
I disagree because, in the book it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” The author never told us that Jonas and Gabriel died. Although it was unclear he was still there outside of the community.
I agree with some of your statements. But I dont think the author had to nessacarily tell us that jonas and gabriel made it. Just from the line "but perhaps it was only just an echo" I think that the author is trying to tell us Jonas never actually found civilazation. And did not make it due to climate and hunger ect.
In the book called The Giver by Lois Lowry at the end of the story, Jonas and Gabriel did not survive when they went to a different community. In proof on page 179 here is evidence about how Gabriel and Jonas did not survive.¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo. Here shows proof that Jonas and Gabriel died because they were hallucinating thinking that they were in the actual different community but in reality they had starve to deaf thinking it was real.
Well here's the thing. Yes you have a good point that Jonas and Gabriel survived on the movie, but here's the thing. Both the book and movie are different. Yes they did survive in the movie but that doesn't mean that they had actually survived in the book. Yes even though everyone has different opinion I still think that Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive.
i disagree with you because jonas could of been hallucinating but i also kind of agree with you because there are multiple reasons on why they would die but think author is playing mind tricks on us
I think Jonas and Gabe did not survive because they had hypothermia. When you have hypothermia your body does anything to stay warm. When they were on top of a snowy hill they passed out and Jonas dreamed of the place beyond.
I think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. In the book as they were climbing the mountain;everything was fogged and very unclear I think they passed out in the snow and the rest of the story was just a dream; from while they were dead.
ReplyDeleteI do see where your coming from and that could definitely had happened. At the end of the book there was a lot of detail and why would he have heard music if he was dead? Everything could've been unclear at the end because jonas was starving and close to death but was still alive.
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DeleteLike I said in my response he heard music while he was dead. The music was just a hallucination and same with the sled. Since he was so hungry and cold he was seeing things. Since his mind was so set on seeing the sled and hearing the music; by the time he passed out and died. The thoughts were still in his head. while he was dead he was dreaming of getting into the village. It doesn't make sense for there to be a sled on top of the mountain that leads him right into a village.
DeleteI think that Jonas died at the end of the book. My reasoning is that the book abruptly stops. This happens as soon as Jonas hears music, which I think is a hallucination, along with the red sled he sees. I think he feels as though he's done his job and can go to sleep (die) peacefully now. I do think that Gabe survived and goes on to live a good life outside of the community.
ReplyDeleteI can understand where you're coming from but I disagree. I believe that both Jonas and Gabriel survived. They do end up going down the hill with the sled. I think he would've started to lose consciousness and hallucination like you said, but I think that he had courage to keep going knowing he would find elsewhere.
DeleteDanielle, where do you think he went? Because he went up the hill with gabriel hungry, and hurt mental and physically. I dont think even if he had the motavation to keep going he physically couldnt.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabe died. In the book it said, "Jonas did not care about himself anymore". But if he cared only for Gabe then they were both doomed. Gabe is a baby and can not take care of himself so he would need Jonas to take care of him. If Jonas did not take care of himself he would die and therefore Gabe would die. At the end of the story it was winter, snowing and freezing. Jonas did not have much warmth and could have easily gotten hypothermia. In result he could have a lot of hallucinations. Jonas could have completely hallucinated the sled. At the end "Jonas heard music". That could have been Jonas dying so he heard some music.
ReplyDeleteI disagre because i think Jonas and Gabe survive. I think they survive because it is to much detal for them to have died and it was a happy ending and i think they did suvive.
DeleteYou have literally no proof that it was a happy ending. Lois Lowry could have easily added all the detail to give the book some closer. Also, like I said before, the whole thing could have been an hallucination. One part of the book clearly supports that. The book said, 'Over vast distances of space and time, he thought he heard music.' That is impossible for the human ear to hear that far away therefore it supports that he was hallucinating the whole thing and is actually lying somewhere half dead till he dies.
DeleteAlthough it is about the most depressing ending to this book, there are too many death metaphors for jonas too have survived. "he felt it, elsewhere" the book reads at pg 74, clearly referring to the Elsewhere people in the community are "released" (later learned to be killed) too. "behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left" on the last page, is him dying and leaving the earth, because the community is not distances of space and time away.
ReplyDelete-Emmelyn because the blog called me sad
(page 174 not 74)
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive at the end of "The Giver" because of the clues the book gives us. On the last page, it says, "they were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby." This shows that there was something on the other side "expecting" them. It may have been death. Also, the last line "But perhaps it was only an echo", after hearing music. This may of meant that he was hearing it as he dies.
ReplyDeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel did survive. I think this because they where using the memorys to keep them worm. Also the people where proble waiting for him because then new that he left his comunity. This is why I think that he and Gabriel survived and did not die.
DeleteI disagree with you. I think that Jonas survived because the book did not say that they died or starved.
DeleteI disagree with you Ben, because just because the book doesn't say anything about his death, doesn't mean it didn't happen. The book also didn't say he survived, which means it could go both ways without any direct evidence.
DeleteI also disagree with you, nina, because the cause of their death probably wasn't the fact that they got too cold, it was most likely because they crossed the border of the community. Also, the people waiting for them may have not been actual people, they could have been death itself.
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DeleteI disagree with that, I think he heard people singing because he was finally in elsewhere and free from the community. I can see your point about him maybe hallucinating but I think everything was foggy because he was starving and on the verge of death but still alive.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because Jonas said that he could hear people singing and I think that is his memories leaving his body.
Deletebut the memories leaving him was the plan and they could do that without Jonnas dying
DeleteBut if you believe that the spurt of warmth Jonas remembered was his memory and not him dying, why wouldn't he have a few more memories left?
Deletei think jonas and gabriel did not survive. in the book jonas and gabriel are climbing a hill and when they got to the top jonas could hear the music of the town that the giver was talking about. i thing jonas was hallucinating in this situation and i think he died right there on that hill.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. if he was dead how could he have "hallucinated" anything? Plus, if he was dead then he wouldn't have heard the music.
DeleteI disagree. the book did not say that Jonas died and I know there are clues but I don't think they mean anything.
DeleteI disagree, I think the hallucination was his final "hope" before he died, the music is a sort of angel choir type thing as he dies
DeleteI believe Jonas and gabriel did not survive. Because I think he was hallucinating the memory of him on the sled and the memory of chrismas. I think this because on page 178-179, It says "Jonas felt himself loseing consciousness" I think he was loseing consciousness because he didnt eat a lot. Because he had to take little from the commuity and he also had share with gabriel, and i also think they didnt make it because it says in the book "across vast distances of space and time ,from the place he had left he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo"
ReplyDeleteI dissagree because I think that they were alive when they saw the house and the family I think that because he heard them from outside of the house not inside of the house
DeleteI disagree with it specifically says in the book if you want to go look that 'from the place he had left he thought he heard music to.' It says 'from the place he had left' which means the community. It also says in the book that he kind of regretted leaving the community because he thought if I was still at the community I would not be starving right now and I would also be warm. The passage that Mr. Kavanaugh read us about hallucination said that you will start hallucinating when you and starved and when your physical health sucks, and that affects your mental health which causes you to hallucinate.
DeleteAt the end of the book I believe that Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive. At the end of the book I think they were hallucinating, because of their starvation and exhaustion. Also as the final sentence it states on page 179, "he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was just an echo". That suggests what he heard wasn't real. After he heard that they died of starvation and exhaustion.
ReplyDeletehe would not have died of exhaustion. He and Gabe had been sleeping you can't be exhausted if you've been sleeping. As for the starvation they could have just been hungry on page 173 it says almost impossible to get food not impossible. but there is a good argument against my reason against starvation about him giving most of the food to gabe. but i can counter that by saying it you can last a month without food.
DeleteBut, even if you sleep, your system can still shut down from not getting enough nutrients, maybe he was struggling with mental fatigue, or he could be overworking himself, in which he would still be fatigued after sleep. Also, at 13 you are growing a lot, so he would need more food. The month without food depends on the person, and since Jonas is working harder physically then he ever has before, it's not a stretch he needs a lot more food.
DeleteReplying to T Walnut I guess. For one I should have clarified that by exhaustion I meant strain on the body kind of exhaustion. Also when you referenced pg 173 that was a while before the time we are referring to. A lot can change and where he is now he can't even get any food because of the climate. You can last a month without food, but you must take into consideration that he was also traveling in harsh weather without proper clothes. That would effect how long he would survive.
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. I think this because on page 178 it said that "Jonas felt himself losing consciousness" which leads me to believe they were hallucinating what happened, and they eventually died.
ReplyDeleteThey could have lost consciousness from being very hungry or cold and could not have hallucinated the music because he doesn´t know what it sounds like.
DeleteLosing consciousness doesn't mean that you would die, most likely you would just pass out from a short time.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive because he was starving. It has been proven to have hallucinations when you are starving. For example, he could hear people singing. I think he was hallucinating and the people singing wasn't actually there. Also, he found a sled and rode down a hill. This makes me believe he was hallucinating because there would be no reason for a sled to be in the middle of nowhere. He also saw houses with lights in the middle of nowhere. Due to these reasons, I think that Jonas and Gabriel died of starvation.
ReplyDeleteIf he had hallucinations that means he could still be alive, and he could have actually seen the lights from a house. In the book it says, "He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding, and all at once he could see lights, and he recognized them now." In that line it says how Jonas was forcing his eyes open meaning he was still alive.
DeleteTHe reason he had hallucinations was because he was starving. He could have died of starvation.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. This is my prediction because I think Jonas lost all of his memories which made him weak. After he became weak he started to lose consciousness. On page 178, it said that Jonas used his final strength. I believe that Jonas collapsed on the top of the hill, and started hallucinating for the rest of the book.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that is true because Jonas had not collapsed yet. He was very tired and getting weaker, but had not yet collapsed. I say this cause I think he kept going and found a town.
DeleteI see where you are coming from, And I am assuming that he did collapse even though it didnt say it in the book. But I think he was losing consciousness because of starvation and collapsed after he gave his final strength on top of the hill, and hallucinated the rest of the book, before the sled event.
DeleteI believe that Jonas and Gaberiel didn’t survive because the book makes a reference to “seeing the light” in the final pages “He forced his eyes open as they went downward, downward, sliding and all at once he could see the lights”. Jonas also describes losing consciousness as he barrels down the hill “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright”. A common symptom of hypothermia is feeling exhausted or tired.
ReplyDeleteI think that he survived. The see the lights part means that he saw the lights of the town. Also if he was hallucinating he wouldn't be able to actually use the sled because it would be a hallucination. He could of lost consciousness, but he is still sledding down the hill into the lights of elsewhere, and you'd still be sledding down the hill into elsewhere even if you had lost consciousness.
DeleteHe could still use the sled even if he was hallucinating, a better word would be he saw the light as a mirage in my case I guess.
DeleteI think they died because they had ran out of food and also had fell and they are tired. There easly going to die because they have no food,water and they are all scratched up and there realy cold becasue they had to go through water and its cold there freezing but they tried to keep warm.
ReplyDeleteWhen Jonas and Gabe's sled ride ended he was very close to a house that could have had a fire for warmth, food, and water for the homeowners survival so then Jonas could use those supplies.
Deletewhat if the town is a mere hallucination from his memories? the town and the sled are the same one from his memory, and his memories come from a very long time ago. I don't think any town would survive that long.
DeleteI think that jonas and gabe did not survive because he didn't eat food for a while because he was hallucinating . sense he hasn't had food in a while he will start to slowly die off. He is also sitting in the snow at the bottom of the hill and he could have got hypothermia . i think that if i was in that position i would die because there is no help.
ReplyDeleteI think they did survive because in the book it was saying how he forced his eyes to stay open, meaning he was still alive, and how he saw the lights. Therefore I think that he wasn't hallucinating and that they are still alive.
DeleteI disagree because you can go a week if not more without food. I do agree he would have been cold but I think he fought the pain and kept moving.
DeleteI think Jonah and Gabriel didn’t survive because in the book it says “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness”. Which could lead him to dying. I don’t think he died straight away, more like he lost consciousness and then slowly started to die. I also think he died because the book states that “ he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” This could mean as he slowly faded away, he heard music far in the distance and then died.
ReplyDeleteI disagree because, in the book it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” This was the very end of the book so it means that he was still outside of his community and alive
DeleteI believe Jonas and Gabriel survive because, The Giver mentioned something called "seeing beyond" but the giver also mentions "hearing beyond". I think Jonas was hearing the music from the community that he left. and he has to be alive to have the powers of the receiver (hearing and seeing beyond, also having the memories of the past)
DeleteI think jonas and gabriel are still dead, i think they are dead because at the end it said ¨jonas is losing consciousness and with his whole being willed himself to stay upright¨. Another reason I think Jonas is dead because he was seeing a sled. But here's the thing: I don't know if Gabriel is dead because at the end they didn't say anything about Gabriel I remember...
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on some parts, but if he willed himself to stay upright how could he die?
Deletems.girl HE DIED
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because they couldn't do what the giver asked them to do in the book .
ReplyDeleteHow could they not have done what the giver had said in the book? The giver said to escape and reach elsewhere, and I believe they did, Jonas had heard music, meaning he has reached elsewhere, he may have been on the verge of dying but I doubt that he actually died.
Deletethe music did not mean that he reached elsewhere for sure.
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because at the end of The Giver, it says, “Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place had had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.”
ReplyDeleteOne reason I think that was because they were about to be killed without the starving, because Jonas and Gabriel didn’t eat in a while.
And another reason (more of a theory) is that it could be that the memories Jonas’ got is more of a hallucination and instead of riding a sled they just slide down to their deaths.
I agree that the sled could have been a hallucination, but I don't understand why the line you took out of the book would prove that Jonas and Gabriel died. If an echo of music was coming from were he had come from (the community), then it is more likely that he stumbled upon another community if he heard music again. It says in the line you took from the book, "across vast distances of space and time," would mean that the memory could have been a memory (not a memory like the sled). If he remembered haring music it could be connected.
DeleteI think Jonas did not survive because the book stated that Jonas and Gabriel had been seeing and hearing things, but I believe that It was a hallucination before death. The Book stated that they only heard an echo which can mean it was their last breath. The hallucinations could have been the memories.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the hallucination theory makes sense. The "hallucinations" were very detailed and it didn't seem like a hallucination.
Deletejust a hallucination doesn't have sound you need a soundanation or something.
DeleteJonas actually interacted with the sled, which means it probably wasn't a hallucination.
DeleteI don't think it would be humanly possible for him to just make a sled with his mind and he could be seeing things before death because he was freezing cold and had no where to be but the cold.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel died because at the end of the book it was saying that he was hearing music then it said “but perhaps it was just an echo”. That makes me think he died because then it just ends. I am also kind of hoping they died because it would be better for them to die than go through as much pain as they would if they were to survive.
ReplyDeletehe was hearing music most likely you can´t hear music when you die it just doesn´t make sense when you die you are unconscious
Deletehe was hearing music but it was him going to the bond and
Deletethat's why he saw nothing after
I think Jones and Gabriel didn’t survive, and the sled represented their deaths. I think that the Christmas lights and the singing were memories given to Jonas that he is recalling because that’s how he wished his life was. It’s like how people often say that they “saw their life flash before their eyes”, and this is probably what Jonas says he sees on his way down the hill, which as I said before represents his and Gabriel’s passing.
ReplyDeleteI think you presented your opinion/case very well. To start assuming the characters in the giver live in the same world as us you can not hear music while dreaming. Also they what happened to them has to be real because Gabriel would have been on the medicine that gets rid of dreams. Lois Lowry the author of the book quoted in the end of the book that she believed it was an optimistic ending. Even if Jonas succeeded in giving the memories back I believe the only optimistic ending would be Jonas's survival. How could an innocent baby dying on a sled be optimistic?
DeleteI think they die because they don’t have much food anymore, and they are both freezing and tired. They don’t have any idea on where they are either. I think if they do end up surviving, it will be either because they found a town or village, or one of the search planes found them. They most likely won’t be found by the search planes, because they haven’t seen them in a while. He got his hopes up, but then after sledding he realized he might have been hallucinating. He might have a few scraps left of food, but almost no energy or shelter, and not much food, if any. It also would take too long to turn back, they wouldn’t make it. I don’t think they will survive.
ReplyDeleteI disagree because if he was dying would he have heard music maybe but in the end of the book it said he saw the grandparents and lights an all those things. I agree that they did not have much food and not much energy but I still think they survived but I could be wrong.
DeleteI think when he heard the music and saw grandparents, he was remembering his memories before he died.
DeleteYou make a good point but I think they could have survived because his eyes were still open and he could still feel the cold and stuff meaning he was alive.
DeleteI think they did not survive because Jonas said he could see lights. I feel like he went into the light, and when he fell on the snow he hit his head and the rest was just his imagination playing tricks on him. I feel he is piecing together the last of his memories and is just imagining the sled and him going down the hill. It also says at the end “or perhaps it was only an echo.” I feel this shows that he is dead and is only imagining the music.
ReplyDeleteThe "going into the light" is not actually true, it's a local belief. You can not ask a dead person if they walked into light. He said he saw lights (not that bright white light that people rumer you see while dying) like christmas lights. That generally means sentient life is living nearby.
DeleteI feel even if he did see christmas lights and he wasn't hallucinating why was there a sled place on top of a hill for him to sled down. I feel the sled was just his last memory and he is just thinking about the memory before he dies.
Delete¨But Jonas twisted his ankle, his knees were scraped and raw, blood seeping through his trousers.¨ After this point in the book, I think that Jonas lost so much blood that he was hallucinating everything, and when he got to elsewhere he died when he was on the sled.
ReplyDeletebut it says later in the book that the wound was healing
DeleteYes, he did hurt his ankle, but as he kept traveling it got better. Also if his ankle got hurt around the start of his journey then how would he have gotten so far.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel died because when you leave the community you are done and you don't come back. It's like when one of the twins left the community Jonas was crying and I don't think he would be crying if he was not dead. On the last page you hear him say he heard people singing but perhaps it was only an echo that probably means he heard something an echo for the last time.
ReplyDeleteI see all of you points, but I disagree. For your first point, it states on page 173, "So there had not really been a choice." This is referring to the fact that Jonas does not have the choice to stay in the community, whether it's about Gabriel, or the people in the community. Also, when the twin was released, he did not go to Elsewhere. They killed him. It says this on page 150. "He killed it!" This is why I think Jonas and Gabriel survived.
DeleteJonas and Gabriel did not survive. There is a multitude of reasons why this is true. For example, when Jonas and Gabriel were about to slide down the mountain, there was a sled just waiting there. How can a sled just exist without someone putting it there beforehand? To show this, one line from page 178 says, “Jonas found the sled that was waiting for them at the top of the hill.” This might mean that Jonas was just imagining this in his mind. Additionally, the last line from the story says, “he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” When someone is experiencing these things in real life, things should be clear. This line makes much more sense when someone is imagining these things in their head. To conclude, Jonas was probably dreaming the whole time in the cold snow. Because of the subzero temperatures, his body must have shut down. Before he died, he must have experienced this scene in his imagination. This is why he and Gabriel must have died.
ReplyDeleteyou're right. This convinced me that they survived.
DeleteYou mean this convinced you that they DIDN'T survive?
DeleteThe ending to the giver was very ambiguous and it left everyone with one question, did Gabriel and Jonas survive? Everyone has their own opinions, but I believe that they did not make it out alive, and I have evidence to back it up. For starters let's talk about the sled that was randomly on a frigid and snowy mountain. It makes no sense that there would just magically be a sled there, which is why I believe he was hallucinating due to his hunger and the frigid weather. In the book on page 178 it says “Using his final strength, and a special knowledge that was deep inside him, Jonas found the sled that was waiting for him at the top of the hill.” Another piece of evidence is that when Jonas thought he heard music coming from the community I believe that he was hearing things, because it would be physically impossible to actually hear that.
ReplyDeleteI am sure you know, but you are incorrect. I would like to critique parts of your argument. It does make sense that the sled was magnificently placed upon that, as you described it, "frigid and snowy" mountain. Think, who created the memories? Who planned Jonas' escape? The Giver. Somebody, I don't know who but somebody who partook in the creation of memory envisioned an oppressive ruling class and decided to plan an escape route. The creator of memory placed that sled upon that "frigid and snowy" mountain, it is not by divine nature that Jonas found the sled, a mortal, in our case a past member of the community led him there. The Giver knew about the escape route as well. Why would he send a naive "12 year old" out into dangerous lands holding fruitless and fatal outcomes? The answer: he wouldn't. The Giver is the enlightened one, not some ignorant sheep that bows down before its rulers. I am certain of this, everything fell into place far too well. The simplest way I can describe Jonas' escape is playing Tetris, but the blocks auto lock into a suitable position. Practically having the game play itself as you stress the outcome.
DeleteGabriel and Jonas did die because they were in the freezing snow with no heat and no food. At the end of the book, Jonas hears Christmas music and sees people coming over to him. He also sees a house with a Christmas tree. But then at the end of the story, it said “but perhaps it was only an echo.” So what I think happened is Jonas died in the snow from the freezing cold and starvation. And then goes and thinks about the sled memories he has. Then after that, he thinks of the Christmas memory and then the music from that Christmas memory.
ReplyDeleteThe "perhaps it was only an echo" Is actually referring to more music he heard that sounded like it was coming from back home. Since there is no music in Jonas's community this must have been from another house or the same house. I believe that Jonas survived and made it to the house. He said he was forcing his eyes open which I feel if he was already dead and dreaming he would not have been cold and not have been forcing his eyes open. To add onto that if he was dead and dreaming he wouldn't be able to hear music.
DeleteYour statements make sense, but it never said that it was Christmas music, all it said was singing.
DeleteYes I might have assumed that the music was christmas music. Only because of the christmas tree in the window and the snow on the ground guessing on what month it was in the book. But even though it was people singing instead of christmas music; it still doesn't change the fact that they could just be dead in the snow; dreaming.
DeleteNothing made sense after he fell into the snow it didn’t sound real. It sounded almost like a dream. It said ¨his spirits and strength lifted with the momentary warmth and he stood¨. And why would there be a sled at the top of the hill waiting for him? Everything that happened after he fell he had memories of all of it.
ReplyDeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel died because in the book it says “Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” Witch I feel is him entering the great beyond.
ReplyDeleteYou have good reasoning, but the movie debunks your claims. Also, *Which
DeleteI think that Gabriel and Jonas did not survive in the giver because when the giver ends Jonas says that he heard music and saw lights then the book ends but what I think happened was he was either hallucinating from starvation and tiredness or actually saw people but still died from starvation, freezing, and tiredness
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you watched the movie and i'm sure this comment was created and posted before our viewing of the movie. I'll say this, you, me, and everyone else on this forum is incorrect. Jonas and Gabriel survived and safely made it to Elsewhere. Movies have a special way of depicting hallucinations and schizophrenic sights. We didn't see any of these depictions in the final minutes of the movie. Also, Jonas' community saw the effects of his departure, something we didn't read in the book. I shall conclude with this, you had good reasoning and obvious reasoning, but the movie debunks your claim...and my claims.
DeleteI think that both Jonas and Gabriel died because even if he saw a sled and heard people singing it could always be a hallucination because when you are deprived from food and water you start hearing and seeing things that aren’t true. One example from the story that he was starved to death is ‘Then, he had a choice, he had made the wrong one: the choice to leave. And now he was starving’ on page 173. The music he had heard was from the community because in the book it says ‘ behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too.’
ReplyDeleteI think they did not survive because in the end of the book it says “but perhaps it was only an echo”. That made me think that he was slowly dying and he heard sounds before he died. It also says “behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music” which makes be think before he died he had some flashbacks from his journey.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with u because maybe the music was real.Plus there is a 2nd and 3rd books. I don't think has starved of died.They were keeping warm too.
DeleteI disagree with you because the Second and third book have nothing to do with this book.
DeleteI think they died because firstly they were lacking food and it also says in the book that using the last strength which was within him. In the book, it says that he started losing consciousness. A certain of love and join was waiting for, this was the told in the book I think that this joy and love is death, death is waiting for both Jonas and Gabriell. He heard music but perhaps it could be an echo. It also says that he used his final strength to find the sled which I think was probably his hallucination I think as he used up his last bit of energy he started hallucinating.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I think that they died
“And realized with heartbreak how cold and weak Gabe had become.” Gabriel is clearly very cold and would not be able to make it up to the top of the mountain. As Jonas and Gabe freeze to death Jonas tries desperately to stay alive and hypothermia sets in. in the book it says that Jonas is feeling colder and numb and his memory fades as he passes along with Gabe to what I assume is the afterlife. “He heard people singing.” could be angles caring them away.
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ReplyDeleteAny healthy human can survive for just so long without food, water, or shelter. In The Giver, Jonas and Gabriel take the life threatening journey in an attempt to save Gabriel from death. As Jonas was sliding down the treacherous hill (in a sled that came out of NOWHERE, why he is most likely imagining this in his head, and having hallucinations before he dies), he felt like he was losing conscience, which are two reasons why I believe he died. As he slid down the hill, he said the “people were waiting for him, and the baby”, even though the people wouldn’t have a clue who Jonas is. I think that Jonas, and Gabriel die at the top of the hill, but start to hallucinate about arriving at “Elsewhere”.
I disagree with the hallucination theory because on page On page 178 it states "He forced his eyes open as they went downwards, downward, sliding, and at once he could see lights and he recognized them now. He knew they were shining through the windows of rooms, that they were the red, blue, and yellow lights that twinkled from trees." I think that is way to detailed to be a hallucination because most of the time when people hallucinate it does not have that kind of detail. Because of that I believe Jonas survived and made it to Elsewhere.
DeleteI disagree with this. Yes, the sled did come out of nowhere, but if it was a hallucination how did he use the sled? We know they didn't die at the top of the hill because for one, he was still forcing himself to stay up straight, so he can still use his body.
DeleteI disagree with Stephen C and Person because right before he "forced his eyes open", Jonas said "he felt as if he was losing consciousness", and also in the first memory that The Giver gave to him, was EXACTLY like this one, but only with Gabriel for a short bit of time. At first, it seemed like Gabriel WAS still riding on the sled, but then the book abruptly ends with no context of Gabriel was still "riding" the sled or not. Jonas might have died, while he was riding the sled, and his mind might have just relieved his first memory, and Gabriel might have died shortly after. Also, it is highly unrealistic that two children can survive multiple hours in freezing temperature, without a coat or pants, and not die of hypothermia.
DeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel don’t survive because in the book on page 177 it says “I remember this place, Gabe.” Jonas remembers it because it was the memory of the people during christmas. In the book it also says “And it was true. But it was not a grasping of a thin and burdensome recollection; this was different. This was something he could keep. It was a memory of his own.” In that last sentence it says that this was Jonas' memory which could be the one of christmas that the Giver gave him. Jonas really liked that memory because it reminded him of love and family. Jonas could have hallucinated that memory before he died.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you, because in the book nothing really happened that is clear that Jonas and Gabriel died. It says that they were sledding down the hill and when they were sledding down the hill Jonas heard music. They say the house that Jonas remembered from his memory. It sounds like they reached the place were there journey ended. This is why I think that they didn't die they just reached there point were they had finished,and what they had been traveling for.
DeleteEmma, i disagree with you. I dont think the book had to say striaght up "they died" I think jonas remembered some of his memories from hallucination and when he stopped thinking about them thats when it said "but perhaps it was only just an echo" bringing him back to some kind of reality and so they never found civilzation and died of climate, hunger ect
DeleteEmma, I disagree with you because in the book it says "the place that he had always felt was waiting, the Elsewhere that held their future and their past." Early in the book it said that the people in the community believed that when people died they went to Elsewhere so that could mean that's where Jonas and Gabriel were. That also explains why in the book it says it felt like the place that they felt was always waiting. This also relates to
Deletewhy he remembered the memory because it says how the place held their past and the memories were Jonas past.
I think Jonas died because Jonas said he heard music in the distance that seemed like it was getting closer, in heaven angels play instruments. He also said that he saw lights and when people die they usually see light and go into the light leading them to heaven.
ReplyDelete“Jonas felt himself losing consciousness” he said on page 179, maybe him losing his consciousness had something to do with him passing away due to freezing.
I see what your saying but i think he survived and in the end he could been hallucinating and then woke up and was still alive
Deletebut it said in the book that he was losing all of his strength which could mean that his body was slowly giving up, when he saw the light and heard the music that was a big sign of him entering heaven.
DeleteI disagree with you because if he was hallucinations. but he had described what the house looked like and that is a lot of details for someone who is hallucinating
DeleteJonas and Gabriel obviously didn’t survive. He lost all his strength riding a bike that was too big for him through ice, snow and blazing heat. At the end it was too much and his body gave out. You can tell that he died because in the book it distinctly shows that Jonas heard angels. “Suddenly he was aware for certainty and joy that below, ahead, they were waiting for him; and that they were waiting, too, for the baby. For the first time, he heard something that he knew to be music.” I think that this book might be ending where Jonas dies and gets sent to heaven to show he did a good thing, even though he was unsure.
ReplyDeletei see what your saying but i think he survived because he could of been hallucinating and then and he woke up and was still alive
DeleteYes he could have been hallucinating, but a lot of people hallucinate before they die. The is lots of concrete evidence to support that he died. Though the fact the he could have been hallucinating and then woke up is a good theory you gave no evidence to back up your theory ad I think that is because there is none. There is lots of evidence to support my theory, when people are dying saying I can see the light is an obvious giveaway that there dying. Also hearing voices is something that happens when people die in a lot of books. Also it says on page 177 that "He began suddenly, to feel happy. He began to recall happy times" This is because he died and is reliving some of his memories just like he was reliving the memory of the sled. Also, how could the sled be real and be the same one from the memory. That sled from the memory was many, many years ago. I know this because it says on page 83 "'Did my parents have sleds and hills? Did you?' The old man shrugged and gave a short laugh 'No,' he told Jonas 'It's a very distant memory.'" If it was the same sled it would not work, it would be broken and the paint would be chipped. Jonas would not be able to ride the sled if it was the same sled. All of this points to him dying. He had a long journey and his body gave out. He had broken bones, was riding a bike that was too big, was starving, drinking dirty water and taking care of a baby. There is no way he could have survived. He used all his energy to get up the hill and when he got to the top it was just too much for him.
DeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because of many different reasons in the Giver. One of them being once he got on the sled he felt himself losing consciousness. I also think that there is no way Gabriel lived because he’s a baby and was in very cold temperatures for a long time with only a little amount of clothes.
ReplyDeleteI think that Jonas and Gabe died because in the book it said that he was losing consciousness and using his last strength to get on the sled. Another reason that Jonas and Gabe died was because he saw the red sled and the red sled is from the first memory that Jonas had. So he was hallucinating because he had no strength left in his body and he would not be able to make a red sled magically appear and use it. Also when he got to the bottom of the hill he saw a house and heard people singing just like in his memory.
ReplyDeleteI think Jonas and Gabriel did not survive due to the fact that. Near the end they stated they both had heard voices and music , but a few sentences later he said it may have been an echo. To me this means most likely he’s hallucinating. Most people say at the end of your rope you see your life flash before your eyes; and nine times out of ten your dead. Also this means he didn’t see anyone run to him or try to help him.
ReplyDeleteI truly believe that Jonas and Gabriel were doomed and did not safely make it Elsewhere. Now, before I delve into the several reasons as to why Jonas and Gabriel perished, I shall remind you of the meer mortality of the human body. Considering that Elsewhere is a real place, and not a different realm. On page number 178 Lois Lowry writes, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness”. I have two notes, the 3rd person narrative and the obvious loss of consciousness. The entirety of The Giver is narrated in 3rd person. So, reading the previous sentence, “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness” in a 3rd person narrative shouldn’t be shocking in the slightest. However, I have a theory. What if the final days of Jonas and Gabriel were so tormenting and mentally damaging that Jonas was relieved to find himself at the hands of death?
ReplyDeleteJonas and Gabriel did die. All of Jonas’s happy memories came flooding back to him at the end of the book, and then he heard music in the distance. This is what would happen right before he dies. This wouldn’t just happen out of the blue. The only possible solution is that before they die, and before they enter heaven, they experience all the good memories in their life. And if he didn’t die, why wouldn’t he see everyone else’s happy memories because shouldn’t that place have everyone’s memories? He only saw his memories.
ReplyDeleteIn your paragraph, you say that all of the memories he gets was because of him dying. I think that it was the burden of all the memories he had from the Giver. It was the memories getting released. I think he felt happy because he new that he had taken a long journey, and it payed off!
DeleteI believe that Jonas did not survive because on pg 177 it says, “He was not warmer; if anything he felt more numb and cold.” That supports my theory that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. Maybe because of hunger, hullusation, or hypothermia. It also stated on pg 179, last sentence of the book, “maybe it was all just an echo.” Some people who thought he survived would probably use the couple paragraphs before that where we thought he found civilization. But I believe that he was only hallucinating and didn’t ever survive.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive. I believe this because on page 178 the book states “Jonas felt himself losing consciousness.” Unless he’s on amnesia or some drug that is not normal. When people are about to die they also feel this feeling. For more evidence page 179 “behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo.” If it wasn’t for the last sentence of the book I maybe would’ve believed he was alive, but now it almost seems like the author is foreshadowing for another book that doesn’t exist. Therefore Jack and Jonas did not survive.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you because people can lose consciousness if they are very hungry or cold and he doesn´t know what music sounds like so he wouldn´t have been able to hallucinate it.
DeleteI think they died because he hears music and almost to the end of the book he was really weak and he fell in the snow and he was really cold. He was also really hungry.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive the journey. One reason that I don’t believe that they survived the journey is that first of all, it was really cold, and they didn’t have blankets, and in the book on pg 174 it says “How cold, and weak Gabriel has become.” This shows that they were in terrible conditions and they could have died due to hypothermia on the way. Not only that, they were really short on food and had finished. On pg 172 it said that they were starving, without food they won’t really make a long way especially Gabriel who is a baby. Not only that, Jonas had been badly injured on his foot and he was physically unfit. Earlier he had sprained his foot and he has to walk a long way and carry Gabriel which will be terrible for his foot.
ReplyDeleteI think that Jonas and Gabriel did not survive because they heard music and I think that was an indicator that they died and were never found. Page 179 at the end for the first time he heard something that knew to be music. They starved or died from bears,wolves or bee’s. I think they found Gabriel and released him and he died from the lethal injection. They could have found Jonas but we will never know. They could have been poisoned by berries or something else.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with u because maybe the music was real.Plus there is a 2nd and 3rd books. I don't think has starved of died.
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Deletethe 2nd and 3rd book do not have to do with the 1st book
Delete
ReplyDeleteI think Gabriel and Jonas croaked at the end of the giver. I think they died because on page 178 Jonas said” Jonas found the sled. My theory is that due to lack of food and the taxing journey he started to hallucinate. And shortly after he kicked the bucket.Gabriel would certainly die without Jonas because of the frigid conditions and a lack of food.
In conclusion Jonas and Gabriel would have most likely died on the journey.
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DeleteI agree with you for some things. First, I agree that he might have started to hallucinate from lack of food, shelter, and heat. But if you think about it, Jonas had a very strong will to try and get out of the communities boundaries. When he did he found the sled, started hearing things, and was overly happy.
DeleteOn the last page of the book it says, "Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he hear music too. But perhaps it was only an echo." I think that was him hearing the community feeling the past.
The book also mentions about how they also have the capacity to hear beyond as well. I think that that is how he heard this.
Also I have a theory. If the giver can give memories about the past, as vividly as can be. Would it be that absurd to give memory about the future. I know that in the first sled memory he was happy, but timelines can change things. Little or small, they could be emotions too. Also When he was reliving the memory at first, he did not know that he would be carrying Gabe, or starving. So he enjoyed it.
As for him feeling overly happy, I think that was him starting to hallucinate. or he was elated that he finally had done it and since he was tired, emotions probably flooded him.
Also one more thing. If he died from hallucinations, how would he still be able to notice himself losing consciousness at the end of the sled ride. "Jonas felt himself losing consciousness and with his whole being he willed himself to upright atop the sled, clutching Gabriel, keeping him safe."
I agree with some of your thoughts. I cannot dispute that Jonas had a strong will to make it to elsewhere but will cannot change everything. When discussing the undisputed facts there is little evidence to claim that Jonas survived. I believe that the sled memory and his happiness was just a hallucination. While he did realize himself losing consciousness, throughout the book we have learned memories can feel as real as you actually experiencing events in real life. And for the your theory an argument can be made for the giver to be able send memories of the future but it was never confirmed. Since not much known about how the giver's power there is much left to be interpreted. But when talking about facts evidence points to Jonas and Gabe dying during the journey to elsewhere
DeleteI disagree because, in the book it says ¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music. But perhaps it was only an echo.” The author never told us that Jonas and Gabriel died. Although it was unclear he was still there outside of the community.
ReplyDeleteI agree with some of your statements. But I dont think the author had to nessacarily tell us that jonas and gabriel made it. Just from the line "but perhaps it was only just an echo" I think that the author is trying to tell us Jonas never actually found civilazation. And did not make it due to climate and hunger ect.
DeleteI disagree because when he hears the music it doesn't say if he dies although it is not very clear he was still there outside the community alive
ReplyDeleteIn the book called The Giver by Lois Lowry at the end of the story, Jonas and Gabriel did not survive when they went to a different community. In proof on page 179 here is evidence about how Gabriel and Jonas did not survive.¨Behind him, across vast distances of space and time, from the place he had left, he thought he heard music too. But perhaps it was only an echo. Here shows proof that Jonas and Gabriel died because they were hallucinating thinking that they were in the actual different community but in reality they had starve to deaf thinking it was real.
ReplyDeleteThey survived, the movies quite literally says they did. I changed my mind and maybe you did too, but it is for certain that we were wrong
DeleteWell here's the thing. Yes you have a good point that Jonas and Gabriel survived on the movie, but here's the thing. Both the book and movie are different. Yes they did survive in the movie but that doesn't mean that they had actually survived in the book. Yes even though everyone has different opinion I still think that Jonas and Gabriel didn't survive.
Deletei disagree with you because jonas could of been hallucinating but i also kind of agree with you because there are multiple reasons on why they would die but think author is playing mind tricks on us
ReplyDeleteI think Jonas and Gabe did not survive because they had hypothermia. When you have hypothermia your body does anything to stay warm. When they were on top of a snowy hill they passed out and Jonas dreamed of the place beyond.
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